I have a hard time agreeing that this was a failed business. Perhaps on the field. Off the field, aside from some ticket issues - you have to think the business was pretty profitable with the sponsorships, merchandise, tickets sold etc. I completely agree that the buck should stop with the CEO, and Barber should take responsibility for the on field performance. However, I suspect there is more to the story, and Barber simply did not have full control of the reigns to right the ship, and having half followed Lenarduzzi's past, his affection for "old boys clubs" I have a strong feeling, but no proof he was a reason for this. Why do I feel this way? I don't think Barber would move his family half way across the world, leave a very successful post with a great team in England, to give one kick at the can and leave. Calling him a clown/fool/name calling is not really necessary. I am disappointed Barber is leaving. However, I wish Lenarduzzi the best, because I wan't to see the Whitecaps become successful. I still believe we have an ownership group committed to developing the best club in North America. You can't discount what Bob Lenarduzzi has done for Soccer in Canada/Vancouver (I haven't read about it in his book) but hope he puts the team above his personal interests, which releasing a book and continually promoting himself through it leaves me feeling suspect.
why are you disappointed a CEO who failed is leaving? Don't you want someone running the organization who will make it successful? I don't understand why people like yourself want to continue a failed vision and a failed path just because you don't like Bobby. Makes no sense.
What doesn't make sense is the following: An outsider like Paul Barber is brought in by a pair of new owners (Mallett and Nash) and given the reigns of a club that Lenarduzzi has played for, coached and directed since the 1970's at one of their greatest moments--re-entry into the big leagues--and that DOESN'T create any resentment, and absolutely no attempt from Lenarduzzi to undermine the new guy that was parachuted in. If that's true, I'd be ready to saint Lenarduzzi on the spot--'cause I'd be pissed in his shoes. It also doesn't make sense that the Barber-haters stubbornly refuse to believe that someone who has become synonymous with an organization and with soccer in this region could fail to find a way to have power within that organization--especially since he remained president. It's as if the position of CEO comes with a magic wand that, when waived, compels all in the organization to do the CEOs bidding and no one else's, regardless what other previous loyalties they may have to anyone else in the organization. I'll make it simple and end my speculation with some hard facts to watch that maybe we can all agree on: All of us agree that Soehn had not a clue about coaching and that the club would be better off without him in any capacity. The Barber-haters say hiring him was all Barber's idea. If that's true, the natural move for Lenarduzzi would now be to get rid of Soehn at the earliest opportunity, for two very strong reasons: 1) Soehn's incompetence, that apparently went unnoticed by Barber, should rankle the soccer-genius Lenarduzzi, (hell, it would rankle someone who watched nothing but curling) 2) Now that Lenarduzzi has taken on part of Barber's job, he will want to purge any remnants of Barber-induced incompetence. If Soehn was Barber's man, he is the most glaring example of that incompetence, and--given he's still scouting for the team--has a chance of making a real negative impact. The worst case for anyone in charge of the Whitecaps now is the possibility of Soehn and new coach Rennie getting into it, and the team suffering. So moving Soehn is a good management move, as it clears the way for a completely new direction for the team. Lenarduzzi, in his great wisdom, would see this and act accordingly. If BL doesn't get rid of Soehn before the start of the next season, then I suggest there needs to be a re-evaluation of just whose idea hiring him was, which should lead to some rethinking in other areas too around Barber and BL's respective positions, contributions, etc. I also find it hard to credit that IF the ownership asked Barber to leave because they saw him as incompetent, that they would allow him to stay around until February, especially when BL and Lewis are right there to step in. Why risk a possibly bitter employee--with the VAST power of a CEO, no less!--sticking around to throw a wrench in the works in what's a pretty important off-season of rebuilding? I'm guessing Mallett and Kerfoot didn't make their considerable money by making bad--and basic--personnel mistakes like this.
Well, if you want to live in some fantasy land that Barber was an excellent CEO, and any problem was attributed to Bobby, that is your choice. Clearly the evidence in front of you is not enough. I anoint you president of the Barber Fan Club
I don't think Barber performed as an excellent CEO during his time with the Whitecaps. However, I doubt Bob was on board with helping him succeed to the fullest. Either way, no one will win this argument, and your snide remarks just piss people off.
Bobby was running the show and got demoted for some dude from the EPL who thought he was better than MLS and this would be easy for him. You can't expect Bobby to be fully eager to help Barber. This would upset any executive if something like this happened. I am sure it was eating Bobby inside seeing what Barber was doing to the club.
I am sure as well. I thought it was an awkward situation when it occurred, keeping Bobby in a figure head role. I don't know when Barber said the MLS was a joke, and this would be an easy move for him. Perhaps he encountered more trouble than he initially anticipated, but for him to not be given a chance to redeem himself after a difficult season is too bad. Again, on field performance ultimately comes down to the CEO as well, as he puts the people into place who pick the players that win the games. Time will tell if Soehn stays. He seems pretty unnecessary, as Rennie seems like he will pick and play who he feels like, and doesn't need a scout like Soehn. Why is that guy still around?
You're making my argument for me. Thanks. I never said Barber was the greatest thing since sliced bread. As I mentioned earlier in a post, I think he made his own mistakes. One of them was probably underestimating the MLS in terms of quality of play, complexity of its rules system, and even the challenge of operating within a salary cap system (which doesn't exist at all in the the EPL, certainly not for a team like Tottenham). He's actually admitted as much publicly when interviewed. What I'm saying (very similar to trhe point you made in the quoted post above), is that Barber stepped into a difficult situation, one that he likely wasn't aware of until he got into it, but that was tilted against his succeeding (why it was tilted is where you and I disagree, I think, Shiek). At some point during his two years here, he realized he was going nowhere fast in the position, and was not going to go anywhere fast if he stayed, because the situation did not change. Therefore, he left. Its not a simplistic black-and-white situation: Barber bad; Bobby, good. They both probably contributed (along with others in the organization) to a poor working atmosphere. Where's my evidence for this atmosphere you ask? I'm a season ticket-holder, and I grew up with the Whitecaps in the old NASL, so therefore watched every game this past season, and consumed every bit of news and interview footage I could find. It was obvious from the players' performance, their body language, and from various FO miscues (season ticketing, for instance) that there were several things badly out of joint within the organization. Common sense and watching other sports franchises for years tells me that's never down to one person, but to a number of people who can't work together in the FO.
right-on-- one incident was jay demerit being ripped into by TS and then having a long chat with BL in the stands at empire-- just the fact that demerit met with BL told me that the relationship of players with TS was very negative -- TOXIC ... and PB failed to recognize that i think if PB had have taken decisive action when it became apparent that TS was NOT the right man to replace TT, then things might have changed from then on- and i might have a different opinion of him as CEO; but leaving TS in as head coach, with absolutely disasterous results (even having colin miller select the team for 2 games at the end of the season) was frustrating and embarrassing; watching hassli tank and then having chiumiento sulk as the season wore on are further examples then allowing/permitting TS to sign Jarju to a DP contract was another piece of poor judgement by PB simply put, PB, at this point of his career, should not be a CEO and i will be surprised-- SHOCKED!!-- if he is hired by a team in the EPL as their CEO he might be good at getting sponsorships, but CEO is not his forte i dont understand why he is being kept around until the end of february-- seems like a chain around BL's and RL's necks and a reminder to the fans and media of a year that all would like to forget-- the toxicity in the front office must make every1 feel very uncomfortable-- ownership should ask him to quietly leave asap how does BL fire TS with PB around??
Simple: If what you guys say about ownership asking Barber to leave quietly-- while doing him the favour of letting him stay for a while so it looks like he genuinely resigned--is true, then Barber is a lame duck in his position with no power and no say. In that case, if BL is the smart soccer guy people say he is, he should recognize the damage TS did to the team--how he alienated all the players, etc. A good leader gets rid of such a toxic presence ASAP when the emphasis in the organization is on renewal. Now that BL and Lewis are dual CEOs, BL has all the ability--and more than ample reason--to fire TS, or get him to resign quietly, a la PB. I'm speculating, yes, but this makes sense given the situation. If BL is who you say he is (and I'll be happy to eat crow, as I said, if he is), then TS should be gone after Christmas (no one--no matter what, deserves to be fired during the Holidays), but before training camp. My fear is, though, that one of PB's mistakes when he got here and realized he was going to need some help navigating the MLS, was to take advice on who to hire as a technical director from BL, who'd spent all his life in and around North American soccer, and was regarded in this region as a giant in the game (and likely had owner Kerfoot's seal of approval). And so it was BL's idea to hire TS, not PB's. I say this because both TS and BL are old-school guys when it comes to the game, and the North American soccer fraternity, which is pretty small and insular. TS, don't forget, had all his success in the early MLs, a different animal from the present league. I'm not just wildly speculating here. There's some evidence in this article that BL may have been de facto head of the technical team from the beginning: http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2011/12/09/barber-quits/ Specifically, I'm referring to when the writer tells readers to "expect chief operating officer Rachel Lewis to pick up most of the business load" in PB's absence, "while president Bob Lenarduzzi continues to head the technical team..." "Continues" to head the tech team. Not conclusive proof from the horse's mouth, I know, but it makes sense when you think about it. PB does not, to my knowledge, have either a playing or coaching background, while BL does. PB has the business background the club needed to secure the financial footing essential for success in the MLS. So the logic goes, put the two men together, give them both positions at the top of the organization, and and you should have the best of both worlds. Problem is, they couldn't work together, because they have absolutely nothing in common either in terms of vision or personality. But if it's true that BL was the de facto head of the tech. staff, and TS was hired on his say-so, it means he's likely not going anywhere soon. My other worry is, using this same logic, is that Rennie, with his progressive ways, will clash with old-schoolers TS and BL. To me, Rennie always came across as Barber's mini-me, not Lenarduzzi's. This, of course is complete speculation on my part, based on a nagging hunch brought on by the info and logic above.
Dude YOu need to get off this "bobby hired tom sohen" bullshit. It isn't true and you just look like a big joke on here. It is starting to get annoying If you have an axe to grind with BL; then write him an email. Stop making up some grand conspiracy theory that we lost this amazing CEO because of the evil Bobby.
No worse than your bobby hard on. Surprised you're able to take your hands off his dick long enough to reply. We have no idea who was responsible for hiring Tommy Soehn, although I bet it was a group decision. We'll see what happens in the next few months, if TS keeps his job.
Sure thing. You might want to try reading the post before you comment on it. If you had, you'd see we actually agree on a fair bit. Whatever.
Barber was responsible for the Soehn hiring. He clearly said that long ago. And he defended and praised him even after the horrible season. Bobby says nothing about Tommy Soehn. These are enough proof that anyone with rational thought needs. Barber is gone; go cry about it and stop making up shit to defend the guy.
We'll see if your hero has the wherewithall to fire TS in the new year. I won't hold my breath, but here's to hoping he does. I for one want to enjoy some decent soccer for my money in 2012.
No offense, Sheik, but no one thinks that he is the one who looks like a big joke on here. His posts are well-thought out, well-written, and - right or wrong - respectful of other posters. I think that dehun is one of the better posters on here and I always enjoy reading his posts. Including the one you are complaining about. BL has had a lot of pull and I can't see any way in which TS gets hired without BL saying it was a good choice. Now BL may have wanted the role for himself but if he knew that the owners were looking outside, I'm sure he had something to say about it - the owners are not soccer experts, and PB doesn't know the North American/MLS soccer fraternity the way BL does.
If you want to support a poster who blatantly lies, so be it. Not much else I can say as you are the censor! Paul didn't know the MLS fraternity which is why he got TS. No way someone with Bobby's experience would have recommended Tom Soehn. Not after the mess he left DC United in.
Under YOUR moderation we have about 5 guys posting here regularly. What does that say? YOu just want everyone to post "your way" with thoughts you agree with or you threaten to ban or lock threads. If you want to support someone posting blatant lies to smear Bobby, that is a very sad course for you to take with your forum. This guy is just on a campaign to discredit someone by posting lies and unsubstantiated bullshit. Just my opinion. This shouldn't be moderated like your own personal fiefdom of "yes men". Let people talk about the Whitecaps and have some fun with it. Supporting lies and smear campaigns only makes you look bad.
quite harsh treatment of the moderator, Sheik!! while you make/have made some poignant, insightful, accurate comments over the many months on this forum, when you 'shoot from the hip' at others who love the Caps as much as you do, the messages that you write about get lost in pro/con Copper Sheik but i do agree that TS was a definite PB hiring-- we may never know why TS was hired, other than to say, it has been a mess since then-- i agree that BL probably had little say in the hiring-- over his 15 year tenure as president/CEO of the D2 caps, he never made such errors in judgement when it came to coaches, hence the many years of successes on the field and an increased reputation in the community of media and corporation support, something that PB built on during his 2 year term (it didn't just magically come out of the air when PB arrived on the scene- some give him too much credit when the foundation had been laid over 20 years since 1986) while i do not know BL personally, i think his record had head honcho of the Caps far surpasses the messy year of PB (can any1 really remember a BL year like this past one???) BL may piss people off, but i go on the results ON THE FIELD and in that respect, BL was a much better head CEO now lets see how BL and Rachel do-- its time to stop the PB rant... myself included
Its not a harsh treatment of the mod. He is supporting and encouraging a baseless smear campaign. I can not sit quietly and say nothing.
two ton tommy was reccomended to the whitecaps by garber,the last time a vancouver expansion team took the leagues advice and hired one of their guys it was the immortal stu jackson officially the worst gm in nba history.
Correct Garber recommended Soehn to Barber, who then decided to hire him. I hate this asshole on here who keeps using his personal agenda against bobby to spread lies about him hiring Soehn himself.