End of collective bargaining/other anti-union measures plus reactions ...

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by purojogo, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why not? You all are equating people with masters degrees and junior high graduates who pick up shit in the park.
     
  2. crazypete13

    crazypete13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 7, 2007
    A walk from BMO
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    So? The right to collectively bargain isn't determined by education level or job performed.
     
  3. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thus my confusion numerous posts ago about Matt's point...
     
  4. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope. The right to my support of your union is determined by whether you are a professional or a tradesman/laborer. I don't buy that AFL/CIO line that all unions are equal. The NFL players and supermarket workers are not equal. I will watch a scab football game and think nothing of it. I will not cross a picket line in front of an A&P.
     
  5. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Before I completely dismiss your opinion, could you just tell me who, if anyone, is supposed to advocate for the supermarket workers?
     
  6. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The supermarket workers union. I don't get your question.
     
  7. steve-o

    steve-o New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Your original post:
    "Hardly secretive" is not exclusive of "secretive". You're a lawyer, you should understand the difference.

    Setting terms that favor the union bosses and teachers' pensions at the expense of tax payers is fraud. Tacit collusion, esquire.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The turn this debate has taken is kinda weird. Matt is trying to define which unions are OK and which ones aren't. If you step back about 10 yards, it's just...weird.
     
  9. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    71st page!!!!!!
     
  10. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seeing that I am the only person on this thread with an original idea, I'll take that as a compliment.

    The rest of you can go back to defending your pre-scripted positions.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure I understand this part. Could you flush this out a little?
     
  12. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wrong again. "hardly" has several definitions. One of those is: ironic often almost or probably not or not at all: he will hardly incriminate himself.

    I would've thought you would've realized that. Guess not.

    And you're also wrong as to your definition of fraud. What you've described doesn't constitute the legal definition of fraud, which requires:
    1. a false representation
    2. scienter
    3. an intention to induce action
    4. justifiable reliance
    5. damages

    You really shouldn't use legal terms you hardly understand.
     
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you have a position on all private market transactions???? I mean, what is the proper way for an electronic component salesman to discount bulk purchases? What is the acceptable way for a doctor to charge indigent patients? What is the right way for a radio station to bill remotes?

    What's weird isn't your position. It's weird that you HAVE a position, that you think you can sit there among the sand dunes and have an opinion on what professions should have unions and which ones shouldn't.

    It's pretty ********ing arrogant. And it's even more arrogant that when I pointed out precisely what you're doing, you still didn't get it.
     
  14. Danwoods

    Danwoods Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    Bertram, TX, US
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The companies that pilots work for benefit significantly by the fact that they are unionized. This also applies to aircraft mechanics that work for the same companies. I suspect that management working in the education world may benefit from the unions as well.

    Pilots in unionized positions increase pay, flight assignments, days off, and vacation based on seniority. Airlines pay tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to train pilots on their equipment. As seniority builds the pilots are better trained and more marketable. Except that they have to go to the bottom of the scale at the competitor if they want to change jobs. In a non union environment the pilot could take the megathousand spent on his/her training and go where the money is.
     
  15. steve-o

    steve-o New Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Perhaps you would like to enlighten me as to which definition of 'hardly' you were using. Because if you say 'not at all,' then you are wrong in your interpretation of the secretive aspect of colluding.

    If you go with any of the others, than I am correct.

    With regards to this specific case, no matter how you slice it, I am right. You are wrong.

    1. Would you care to explain how the MLB owner's colluding to keep players' salaries depressed meets the requirement of false representation?

    2. Is this the legal definition of fraud that is accepted across all jurisdictions in the US?

    For someone that appears to be bent on details, you sure to due leave a lot out.
     
  16. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that because the NFL players have specialized skills, or because they make so much money?
     
  17. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, because contrarians are so very original and interesting. It's difficult not to conclude that you take ridiculous positions just for the attention and the pleasure of getting people riled.
     
  18. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The best thing about MitH is that he only does that about half the time.

    So you never know which version you'll get...
     
  19. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He reminds me of my dad.
     
  20. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    no they don't, at all.
     
  21. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    He's bi-winning.
     
  22. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    You're really outdoing yourself here. I mean, I think this may exceed your "prohibiting mining on public property is a restriction on private property" and "the contractor is not responsible for the actions of his subcontractors" legal theories on the stoopid scale.
     
  23. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    does Dubai hate unions too? and women?and freedom? No, i don't mean to mix MiTH with any of those ideas...just trying to imitate his train of thought, which is hard to completely figure out....or maybe it just is not meant to...
     
  24. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plus, in Wisconsin anyway, teachers apparently tend to vote Dem. Walker has notably not gone against police unions because they tend to vote Reep.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...isconsin-cops-keep-collective-bargaining.html

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/22/w...-by-sparing-wisconsins-policemen-and-firemen/

    It's all about partisan politics (and paying back the Koch brothers for their brib.... er, "contributions") and the people of Wisconsin will be the losers if he succeeds. Hopefully, they'll have learned their lesson without paying too high a cost for Walker's little political games.
     
  25. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's so hard to figure out? He's just trying to stir things up with his phony "contrarianism"/glibertarianism. Play along with him if you want or don't feed him if you don't.
     

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