End of 2022 Off Season Thread

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by griffin1108, Oct 10, 2022.

  1. Daniel le Rouge2

    Apr 16, 2015
    Club:
    DC United
    Ha! That’s MISTER Unhinged Internet Nut to you, sir!
     
  2. shammypants

    shammypants Member+

    Oct 9, 2013
    Club:
    DC United
    #27 shammypants, Oct 12, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
    I don’t think any shmuck off the street could have done better but every new coach on every team for as far back as it’s worth looking did better in less games than Rooney. All of them. Every single one. Coaches with crappy San Jose and Houston rosters in a tougher conference. Chad Ashton with two worse DC United squads. Coaches accepting jobs mid season where a team had earned less points in the previous games than DC had earned and were in worse form. Teams that weren’t able to spend more than 4 million on players and coaching as we did. Every single one of those coaches earned enough points in 14 games to avoid the spoon we earned.

    It’s not simply record but our tactics and quality of play was worse than under Olsen or Losada. It’s not simply record or tactics but that no player improved and every player was worse at seasons end. It’s not simply record or tactics or zero ability to get blood from the stone but that he showed zero passion or interest while this was all happening.

    Instead of spending 2 million on a gimmick we could have hired a head coach and a set of assistants of high quality to fill the role and they couldn’t have done worse. We absolutely shouldn’t have filled the role until the year was over. We gambled stupidly and we lost big. On top of all of this we’re further in a hole by spending money stupidly on Benteke, domestic abuser Ravel Morrison and the invisible man Palsson. So all around stupid decisions to end the year and now we need to wait to see how Taxi and Ochoa fall. To me every decision in the second half of the year was stupid, misguided and wasteful.

    Just a clarification.
     
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  3. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    It sucks when this makes sense...
     
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  4. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    On one hand, I think that hiring a permanent coach sooner rather than later was a good idea in theory, especially when we were already mired in last place as it could have provided relatively-low-pressure time to start adjusting and start roster building for next year. In practice... yeah, it's been more than a bit worrisome. Rooney showed much more engagement and promise coaching Derby than he has back here in DC the past few months. I don't think he understood just how broken the roster and the morale here was. I still have a *tiny* bit of hope that a full offseason in addition to the bit of extra time this year means we'll actually have some energy and ideology in place at the start of next season... But I'd only rate that as being a 30-40% chance at the moment.
     
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  5. Section 107

    Section 107 Member+

    DCU
    United States
    Jul 18, 2018
    #30 Section 107, Oct 12, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
    To lay this debacle at the feet of Rooney due to lack of passion or interest is as ridiculous as the farcical claim that this team had "...a playoff quality roster." How many times did you talk with him? How many training sessions did you attend? How many meetings and discussions did you have with any member of the technical staff? 5? 10? 1?

    What would be acceptable evidence of his interest: screaming during games? Pounding the table in the post-game pressers? Giving interviews where he publicly castigates specific players and bosses?


    Consistently winning requires the coalescing of so many factors that laying the blame on one person who arrived mid-season is just plain wrong - irregardless [sic] of comparing the records of others who also took the helm mid-season (but I do agree all performed worse since he arrived, and I agree with your assessment of all the other decisions made mid-season).

    Providing a masterclass in losing as well as DC did this year does require a special kind of skill.

    Turn the situation around:

    Across all sports, many teams have gone from first to worst with pretty much the same roster, coaching staff and FO as they won the previous season's championship.

    Were they not a "playoff quality roster"? Whose fault was that turnabout?

    Luckily for us, DC has the dubious distinction and some kind of special magical talent to have done this going in both directions: in 2012 we finished 3rd overall, then finished 2013 with the league's historical definition of futility, then finished 2014 back in 3rd overall.

    Keeping this entertainment business in perspective will keep our blood pressure in check.....
     
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  6. Daniel le Rouge2

    Apr 16, 2015
    Club:
    DC United
    Honestly, that’s a distinction without a difference.

    None of them did it with this roster, with or without $4 million spent. You’re assuming — without basis — that Chad would continue winning just enough to scrape us the extra 8 points we needed to dodge the spoon. I disagree.

    These are valid criticisms. However, I do think the trendline was in that direction anyway. So I’m not convinced all of those valid criticisms are entirely Wayne’s fault.

    Now this is really tough to argue against. Particularly panicking and replacing Chad midseason and not taking the additional time to make sure we got the right people in place, both in the front office and on the pitch. To your credit, you had this pegged early. I hoped the results would be different, and I was willing to wait and see.

    In the end, I’ve got nothing on this one. You were right. I was wrong.

    I appreciate the clarification. I’m still not convinced that Wayne is the black hole of suck you purport, but whether he is or not, this is where we are. I think the first step has to be an offseason blood letting of epic proportion, first in the front office and then on the roster. If we make a clean sweep and Wayne is gone in favor of someone with a demonstrably workable plan, I won’t shed a single tear.

    But just kicking Wayne to the curb doesn’t fix this and we should be aiming higher than dodging the Spoon.
     
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  7. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    Very hard to evaluate a coach when he has a USL quality roster. I think Durkin improved substantially under Rooney, I also think Kimarni Smith demonstrated usefulness as a roster depth piece which he hadn't shown before. I would agree the midseason signings underwhelmed. Morrison had a full runout and I don't see him as an upgrade to Moreno or Felipe, but his supporting cast was dire. Palsson and Benteke really arrived too late and Benteke only played with Taxi for 60 minutes. Are they busts? IDK, by midseason next year we will have a better idea. Again, the FO put together a shit roster, they did not replace Arriola or Paredes in any meaningful fashion. Those were the two most dynamic players in 2021. Taxi is dynamic, but not the disrupter that Arriola is and not the threat on the flanks that Paredes is. Then Losada lost the locker room, Ashton let them eat banana splits and Rooney was the janitor brought in to clean the men's room after the toilets overflowed.
     
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  8. shammypants

    shammypants Member+

    Oct 9, 2013
    Club:
    DC United
    Maybe, something like that. Why is this somehow seen as stupid and not normal emotional interest of a coach?
     
  9. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The team is too slow to compete, always late to challenge, lose all 50/50's, can't get to gettable passes, etc.
    Some faster guys, like COA and Kimarni, are inconsistent at best. Taxi may or may not be back.

    Guediri got better as the season went on and I'm sure he wasn't the main problem in the back. But he's too slow, gotta get a better option.
    Skundrich, I mean c'mon, what are we doing?
    Brad Smith? Not even going to be healthy until the summer, probably diminished from what was already burnt toast on the field.
    Adrien Perez, it's funny because the very first game he played with DC I thought, hmm, they got something here. Downhill ever since, can't get healthy anyway.
    I thought Alfaro was smart and steady last season, this season he looked dumb and slow. Moving on.
    Pines breaks my heart but he's unplayable as it stands. Could be the one that got away but so be it.
    I thought HInes-Ike was having a poor season, but the defense totally cratered when he went out, so what do I know? He can at least move his feet, he stays, also he's under contract.
     
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  10. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    One thing Rooney did is push the defense forward. Hell, teams started trying to chip the keeper from kickoff...

    He continued to set the team up this way after it was clear we did not have the personnel to protect the goal.

    He traded Gressel for nothing (I know it was some acronym money). Gressel is everything Rooney claims he wants in a player. Sure he was having a down season but he had zero support and a shitty supporting cast.

    He benched our second best striker in favor of non-scoring Berry and then non-scoring Benteke.

    He continued to play Ravel "How can I set my teammates to fail" Morrison despite the evidence that he stressed our defense a lot more than he threatened the opposing goal.

    I could go on but frankly his record of moves is pretty shit.
     
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  11. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Continued:
    Canouse is a cap problem more than anything at this point. He's not easy to trade, I don't think he'll want to move what with his real estate venture here.
    I only say that because he can't stay healthy. I like him, he didn't always play his best, but he played his hardest and you know he's on the field.
    Djeffal was a rookie who played a ton and struggled. Run it back with him, see if he's progressing. I don't like the international tag, if it becomes an issue I'm okay moving on.
    Berry was shocking in person. A 30 yard pass would be 3/4 of the way to him before he even moved his feet. It's beyond lumbering, I had a hard time computing what I was seeing. How he made it this far, I don't know, but well done to him. He's bad, though, let him go.
    Durkin should be a back up, that's a good role for him and it would mean, presumably, there's some quality starting.
     
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  12. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Running up and down the field like a shit-gibbon does not make one a better coach.
     
  13. shammypants

    shammypants Member+

    Oct 9, 2013
    Club:
    DC United
    Rooney was an emotional player and now he's a valium coach. No one is asking him to run up and down the field screaming like a lunatic. Something would be nice, like lifting an eyebrow.
     
  14. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't want Cholo and Rooney learned coaching from Ferguson. Ferguson wasn't a shitgibbon.
     
  15. shammypants

    shammypants Member+

    Oct 9, 2013
    Club:
    DC United
    Ferguson was also a good coach, unlike Rooney, and supported by (in comparison to the rest of the soccering world at the time) unlimited money and prestige assets. Rooney can be his own self.
     
  16. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    You do understand there is a gulf of possibilities between this and stoically sitting or standing on the sidelines.
     
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  17. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Basically a demeanor does not make one better or more interested or more engaged. Cherundolo is likely coach of the year and is not a screaming shit-gibbons like KC or Portland's coaches.
     
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  18. JRHokie

    JRHokie Member+

    Aug 23, 2001
    Fairfax, VA
    To.e its the personnel moves that are the real indictment of Rooney. As far as the coaching part i give him a bit of a pass in that it appeared to me that the entire rest of the season once he got here was more about experimenting with young guys and combinations amd assessing players without much regard to results because I'm guessing he was assured he wouldn't be blamed for poor results from experimentation. However, what difference does it make if he continues to make horrible acquisitions.
     
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  19. JRHokie

    JRHokie Member+

    Aug 23, 2001
    Fairfax, VA
    Oh and congrats to the team for it's 4th wooden spoon. Tied for the most with San Jose. 4 spoons, 4 cups
     
  20. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    [​IMG]
     
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  21. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    maybe some of this?

    herrera-promo.jpg
     
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  22. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there are two kinds of coaches. Some believe in the system, and try and get their players to play that system, and try and get players they think will help with that system.

    Others look at their players strengths, and come up with a system to maximize those strengths.

    Benny noticed we were slow and not terribly skilled, and played the possession and park the bus system.

    Losado noticed we were too slow for his system, and tried to make everyone faster through fitness and weight loss.

    Our players have no strengths, and can't play Rooney's high-press system, so it looked like a mess out there.

    The main consistent thread? Other than some notable exceptions that have all left, most of our players are slow and not terribly skilled. Been this way for a decade or more.
     
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  23. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Classic.

    I've said it elsewhere. There's no reason hiring Rooney should have resulted in a wooden spoon. He had a decent run coaching in the Championship, he was familiar with the league and DC, he was given leash to bring in his guys and he's Wayne Rooney. Nobody in the locker room should be ignoring him. I don't really care what other factors were involved, because they didn't change from when we were a mid-table team earlier in the season. There are plenty of people to blame, buttons to push and levers to pull. But if I'm Levien, I'm seriously wondering if I'm cursed at this point. Hiring Rooney was objectively and subjectively a good move at the time and the FO gave him more leeway and resources than any new coach in the history of the franchise.

    If y'all think firing a guy who knows MLS rules and a data analyst are the keys to turning this around, all right. I can't say that won't help, but only because I can't say what will help. The level of inconsistency and disorganization we've witnessed on and off the field is historical, even for MLS. Fortunately for me, I don't own the team, so I'm allowed to throw up my hands in despair.:D
     
  24. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    I would disagree strongly with your characterization of DCU as ever mid-table at any point. The team won its first 2 games in very unconvincing fashion and had to come from behind to beat an expansion team (at home) in the opening match. The team was already in free fall when Losada was canned. No one could have turned that sinking ship back to port, it was sinking regardless of the captain. Just look at the roster when Losada was here -- that was a USL quality roster right there. The two most impactful players had not been replaced and, given what we know now, Arriola, Moreno and Felipe jumped ship rather than take another cruise with Losada. In other words, the locker room was lost before preseason. Of course Kasper et al., just pretended it would all go away until it didn't. Putting the blame for this on Rooney or even Ashton is unfair. There are three salaried employees - Kasper, Rushton and Mairs - who have their fingerprints all over this mess. They should be the ones held accountable for this mess.
     
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  25. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    Rushton has been here all of a year and a half - Hardly any of her doing
     
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