Seems to me that a change of coaching would be good. I'm not going to criticize Ellinger here, but I know many youth clubs change coaches every couple of years. Why is this guy the ONLY coach who can lead this group? Are you telling me we don't have any other coaches in this country who could take the 17's?
You could start with the fact that he's under contract until 2005. Two questions: - Who did you have in mind? - Are you really saying that we should change coaches for no reason other than "change is good"? I like John. I think he does a good job. If you know of someone who can provably do better, let's hear his name.
Talk to Nittany Nation about Joe Paterno. According to them, sometimes a fresh look can be very good. Even if it means dumping someone who is already very good.
Look, there's always somebody better. Just ask Fire fans who were bummed when Bob Bradley left. Now some of the Barnburners have cut out his picture and are throwing darts at it, and Dave's picture is right next to the family portrait. Meanwhile, consider your job. Think there's nobody else out there who could do it better? Well if you do, pal, hit yourself over the head with a 2 by 4, because you are wandering around in fantasy-land. Really, it's not about finding somebody better: it's whether the guy whose doing the job now is doing well in his position, and is meeting the job requirements and objectives. Is the job getting done in the right way? For Ellinger, it's not just about winning the U17 WC; it's about 4 objectives: 1. creating an environment, with its inherent restrictions, where two or three guys our of every group can eventually become Nat team stalwarts. 2. where 6-8 become serviceable pros. 3. where guys who enter the program become better players by the time they leave it. 4. show respectably in the U17 tournament. Is he meeting these job objectives? You can quibble about 4, but I think on 1, 2, and 3, he's doing a pretty good job.
But Paterno's teams suck, they can't play offense and he can't recruit anymore. There are GOOD reasons to fire him. What's taking PSU so long is a mystery.
I first became worried about the coaching of the U17's when I saw them play a couple of years ago. It was kick and chase. I knew that some very reputable people were grumbling but blew that off because coaches like to complain about other coaches almost as much as they like to coach. I became more worried about the U17's after watching the Dallas cup. I started asking around and even his supporters said that he had a crop of players that wasn't very tactically aware. Since watching all four games of the U17WC, he has lost the benefit of the doubt in my mind. In addition, his supporters, that I talk to, also are worried. Now I've been hearing rumors that the best players are being discouraged from going to Bradenton. Is all this justified? How the heck should I, as a fan, know? I don't know and I am not qualified to pass professional judgment on Ellinger. However from my perspective, from a fan's perspective, he no longer has the benefit of the doubt. I would like his supporters to tell me two things. First, what is his resume? Where did he learn to develop international, professional players? Is he learning it as he goes or was he trained by someone? Who? When? Second, what is his specialty? Dribbling? Tactics? Fitness?
would like his supporters to tell me two things. First, what is his resume? Where did he learn to develop international, professional players? Is he learning it as he goes or was he trained by someone? Who? When? Second, what is his specialty? Dribbling? Tactics? Fitness? _____________________________________________________________________________________ the above comment was for ellinger. I would like to see arena's supporter answer the same questions. i heard that arena was a lacrosse goalie...
He was a lacrosse goalie. He also has a cap as the USMNT keeper. Let's keep this topic on Ellinger, please.
Which doesnt really help Arena's case for your arguement.. It just proves that someone's soccer pedigree should be considered, but doesnt necessarilly make or break them as a coach..
Can you spell "accountability" ....come on!! please do not tell me that Ellinger is doing a good job !! We just got whoop on the last tournament !!
Where he again blamed his players for the loss rather than take responsibility. Boston, I agree that it is a good example of qualifications not being the end-all-be-all. However, rather than arguing over BA's qualifications I'd rather keep this topic on Ellinger. I'd like to know what his qualifications were and what his suporters consider to be his coaching strengths.
Could someone tell me what this means? I am sorry AM. I do not have an answer for you about Ellinger's qualifications or specialty (do coaches really have those at that level), but I do have a question for any KNOWLEDGEABLE posters out there. I know I haven't posted since the U17 CUP but help me out on this one... What exactly does it mean for a player to be tactically aware? It's amazing to me how many coaches I find in this country who use that phrase as an excuse for why they can't make use of an otherwise talented player. I have seen here in my neck of the woods the same player move from one National Championship winning, National Team Player producing juggernaut of a club as a star player on their team, to another club of identical stature only to be sat on the bench for the first months of the season because of his lack of "tactical awareness." I have sent my players to ODP. Some are considered "tactically aware" by some of the coaches, not by others. Also, by position. My Dmids, Central Defenders and forwards are all generally considered to be excellent tactically. My Amids and Outside backs are generally given average to mediocre evaluations tactically. Maybe it's because I give those players the run of the park and tell them to just "be dangerous and create opportunities." Funny how these are always the players other coaches are most worried about when we play though. NL
I found this: https://ssl.thesportscoach.com/preview/aboutus/prvEllinger.cfm Okay so from what I can tell, he has a phys. ed. teaching degree from Frostburg State then became a coach at Montgomery College which once achieved a (D3, NAIA, JUCO?) #5 ranking. Since then he's been a USASA / USSF staff coach in one way or another. From what I can tell he has no professional playing experience and played (I guess) college ball at Frostburg State. Here is another article that I found (Google: John Ellinger Frostburg soccer and you get a lot) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/mls/news/2000/12/05/ellinger_coaching_sa/ which has a great quote: He spoke well when he said he has areas to improve upon. That sounds like a knock but it's not. Good people know they need to improve and coaches who are comfortable where they are can be candid about themselves. Here is a quote from BA: That's another good point. The US U17 coach is a coach of non-professional players. They aren’t under contract hence they require a bit more consideration otherwise they will leave for their home club or go overseas. If anyone has any more I think that would be great to see. So what is Ellinger especially good at as a coach?? PS - TNL, This would be a good example of a lack of tactical awareness from GersMan's latest article:
I think the program at Bradenton should be expanded to at least a hundred players. A real soccer academy! I think Ellinger is an ideal candidate to manage something like that. I think the U17 & U20 teams would be chosen from that pool (pro teams also) and coached by someone with greater international experience. Since the U23 side gets together more infrequently, perhaps the U17/20 coach doubles as the coach there as well. Rather than sending these guys out at 18 they could continue until after U20 if they don't move to a professional team. Ellenger, if he expects to coach at the highest level with the US, needs to coach in the MLS. He'll have to take a place in line behind the likes of Bradley and Sarachan until then and that's assuming that the next coach is an American.
I would like to see Bradenton expanded to 100 good players. Again, right now, as I understand it, many players are being encouraged to stay in their home clubs and play US Club Soccer / SYL / PDL league soccer rather than go to Bradenton. Many of today's club coaches don't like the "old guard" of coaching still left over from the 80s. The Bradenton enviroment, including the coaching, has to be attractive enough to recruit the best players.
I'll be the first to admit I dont know the nuances of the youth elite coaching environment, but I cant imagine a club being as good as Bradenton, (if for no other reason as exposing yourself to the best talent around, day in and out. This is of course, assumming Bradenton with its resources, attracts the best talent.. And assuming it does, How different are the techniques used by these club coaches than the old guard?
Going back to the "pressure" post a couple of weeks ago a 15yo in Chicago or LA, etc. could move up to his U19 team or even up to his PDL team to get increased pressure and a faster speed of play. It allows a player to go up or down depending on how well they are doing at that time.
so I gather it is more of a flexible system, rather than one coach, one place, one group of kids... the kid has the option to play with diff. groups and find a group/coach that they feel most comfortable with..
This is an interesting thread. I think we can all agree that having a higher-level coach, and one good with kids, would be preferable to Ellinger. But now, where are you going to get such a person?-the person must move to Florida, commit for at least two years, and train amateur boys.I don't know the salary, but I m guessing it is not big bucks. This is NOT a job that will attract many high level professional coaches. So my overall take: yes, we could in theory do better, but it is simply not a job many qualified people would want.
Where is this going? I am concerned about where the direction of this thread is headed. If you look at the players Ellinger has had as the U17 coach, one must concede that he has acquitted himself fairly well. I will tell you that the Midwest based players who have gone there have improved immeasurably. DaMarcus Beasley was a mere shadow of the Silver Ball winning player before he went to Bradenton. Even for the top players he has had so far in Donovan and Beasley, the jury is still out. They are still so VERY young, but either of them or both, given the right career moves in the next 3-5 years could become bonafide world class superstars. The vast majority of non-Brazilian/Argentine players do not emerge as world superstars until age 25, 26 and then their reign goes until 31, 32 or so then they retire. So the oldest of Ellinger's players is what 21, 22? And dominating the domestic leagues at 21, 22 is exactly the track that most world class superstars take. Is Ellinger successful? Who knows... yet. NL
So he was a wrestling coach, huh? In my opinion, Ellinger would make a GREAT administrator, but should leave the coaching to those who have some playing experience. Names that come to mind: Johnny Trask Peter Nowak Hristo Bobby Clark or hire a dutch or french academy coach
Every couple of years? what about if a coach does not perform get fired on the spot.... even the mexicans which have decades of soccer tradition are getting the best coaches of the world while USA SOCCER rows on the droll......