Eliminatorias al Mundial de Catar 2022

Discussion in 'CONMEBOL' started by chaski, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Brazil will have easy road. A lot of players in great clubs, key players in their clubs, good shape during Covid 19.

    Argentina will also have domination, but not so convincing in scoring.

    Chile, Uruguay will be also in Qatar with Colombia.

    Peru, Ecuador, Paraguay will provide a lot of problems to their opponents. Maybe they won't qualify.

    Bolivia, Venezuela won't qualify at the end.
     
    Estuardo A. Lopez repped this.
  2. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    I don't think we are at the level of Uruguay. They have better players in almost all positions, they just need time to build chemistry. Colombia will qualify as well, they have plenty of players to choose from even if they are not as good as Uruguay's options.

    I think Chile will fight for that 5th spot with Peru, Ecuador and Paraguay. If we can get the most points out of those key matches (and defeating the weaker teams like Bolivia and Venezuela home and away) we go to Qatar.
     
    msioux75 repped this.
  3. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #28 Gilbertsson, Oct 16, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
    Uruguay replaced well their central players. They don't invite Muslera, Cavani, Vecino, Gimenez.
    Colombia is a complicated opponent, running, crossings.

    Bravo, Medel, Vidal, Isla, Aranguiz, Sanchez, Vargas are getting older, their last chance in Qatar.

    It worries, that Chile doesn't export new players in bigger European clubs.

    Two in Inter Milano, one in Betis Sevilla and Fiorentina.

    Or maybe Chilean league is much stronger, so no need for Europe.
    Several players play in Mexican league, strong league I guess.
    Universidad de Chile - La U went down in performance. Now fifth, last season was bad.

    You don't have the feeling that Chile could have 6 points, not 1. Points went off in additional minutes.

    Chile had good chance in 2nd minute against Uruguay, after their mistake.
    10th minute, bar for Uruguay. 35th chance for Uruguay penalty. Was it intentional, it was far from body, deserved penalty. Penalty for Chile, I guess not. Nice action for 1-1. Hand of Uruguay player, also penalty. Journalist also said la mano separada. Nice chance for Godin 91st. 96th minute Chile had chance. Not many chances for both teams.

    Brazil 1st, that's for sure.

    Battle for second place is crowded. Argentina, Colombia, Chile, Uruguay.

    These five teams will be in Qatar.
    Uruguay, Chile have weaker defence. So, they might be 4th, 5th. Defence brings results mostly.

    Are MacAllister, Simeone children that good to play for Argentina?
    Messi doesn't like Dybala, Icardi. But they might be the second team, very good central players: Paredes, Lo Celso, Acuna.

    Peru played nice in the last World Cup, close with Denmark, France and they both went far. But result doesn't come easy to Peru. The same might happen to them in these qualifications. Defence if Peruvian main problem.

    In Santiago Chile can pull victory against Uruguay.

    It's tough to win in Peru, Ecuador, Paraguay. Maybe Brazil will take 9 points there. All others might spill the bucket of milk there. Not sure, where is worse: tropical Guayaquil or altitude in Quito. Whoever goes in Colombia, also must work hard.
     
  4. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    #29 posteador, Oct 16, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
    The main strength of Colombia is not that they are THAT good, or that they have many world class players. No. The reason I have them qualifying directly is that they have a lot of solid good players. Nothing incredible, but very good nonetheless. What this means is that injuries don't hurt them as much because they have a pool of players to choose from.

    Uruguay is also strong in this regard, but their top11 is better than Colombia's top 11 in my opinion.

    Absolutely not. Chilean league has never been weaker, our best players are all foreigners. Our "giants" have never been weaker either. Usually we could at least get out of the group stages in Copa Libertadores... maybe a semi-final or quarter-final every now and then. Now we can barely get out of the group. It's never been this pathetic and it's really worrying for the future of the sport in this country. Newer generations play more e-sports than actual football these days.

    La U almost got relegated last season and the national protests saved us, because it cancelled the season.

    This year maybe Colo-Colo will get relegated. :D

    In general, the future is dark.

    I hope so, but I'm not so sure about Chile.

    I feel our main rivals will be Ecuador, Peru and Paraguay. And once again it is going to be tight.

    If we can beat those three at home and maybe one of them away, then I can see us qualifying. Those are what I can "6 point matches". Because we are taking 3 points from a direct rival for that 5th spot.

    It doesn't matter too much to me that we lose away at Uruguay because chances are, Peru, Paraguay and Ecuador will also lose in Montevideo.

    Losing 2 points at home to Colombia hurt a bit though, because I could see Peru, Paraguay and Ecuador taking all 3 points against Colombia when they play them at home.

    So in my imaginary table we are currently at -2 points from what we should have. Not terrible but not good either.

    Next match at home against Peru is a "6 point game". It will make or break the start of our campaign. We HAVE to get 3 points no matter what. Anything less is absolute failure.

    Quito is the toughest away match from that lot. And it's not even close. We've beaten Peru and Paraguay away in recent memory. Ecuador have always bullied us up in Quito. They just destroyed a very good Uruguayan side. They can beat Brazil and Argentina there as well if they want.
     
    Gilbertsson repped this.
  5. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    James is world class. You could argue Duvan Zapata is as well, but James is undisputably a world class player.

    I think the word you're looking for is depth. This is the deepest Colombia team in my lifetime.
     
    msioux75 repped this.
  6. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Falcao stopped with playing in Europe, he scores, but far from focus, media.
    Colombia had always 2,3 great players at World Cups, but their running abilities are unusual. I would rather see Uruguay, Argentina as opponents, than Paraguay, Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil. Chile can be complicated, if you end in discussion with Vidal, Sanchez, Medel...running abilities, especially those with Aboriginal descent are tough to beat in running. Teams that have Pacific ocean exit.:eek:

    Cuadrado - world class player also.:)
     
  7. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    I'm not an CONMEBOL expert but I see Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Uruguay and Paraguay qualifying in fine the end. (the first two matchdays don't change anything for me)
    It's not common that CONMEBOL sends exact the same teams to back to back World Cups.That's why I predict Paraguay to make it instead of Peru this time around. I consider the other four teams as "save".
    Peru is lacking a target man upfront. Guerrero isn't included anymore. So that's a problem there. Paraguay wasn't far away to qualify four years ago. They bottled it on the last matchday at home to Venezuela.
    I think with Berizzo at the helm they are slightly better than in the last qualifying cycle.
    In the Copa last year they drew both Argentina and Brazil. A lot of folks are sleeping on them.
    Paraguay is historically the 4th best side in CONMEBOL and the time has come to prove it once again after a couple of difficult years.
     
  8. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    Yes, that's what I meant. Also agree James is a world class player, but that's the only world class player they have. They have strength in numbers.
     
  9. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Guerrero will still be with us most likely. It depends on how well he comes back from his injury. He's been a fine wine though, keeps getting better with age.
     
  10. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Didn't you say Chile were already in the final when they were drawn with Peru in the Copa America semi's?

    I understand you like Chile, but you need to be objective. Chilean league isn't, and never has been better than Europe's best.
     
  11. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    Not by much. Chile has at least made it to 3rd place to a World Cup (admittedly it was the one we hosted). Losing a quarter-final is the best Paraguay have done. But in general they are a better "cup side", even though we have the same Copa America titles, they have 2 more finals than us and 2 more 3rd places in Copa America. I think their defensive nature is better for cup games.

    However, in the league format we have in qualifiers, winning is rewarded more than draws, so teams like Paraguay, that can get a lot of draws, can suffer. (They once made a Copa America final drawing all the way to the final without even winning a game in regular time I think).

    The difference last time around between Peru, Chile, Paraguay and Ecuador was minimal.

    5 [​IMG] Peru 26 (+1)

    6 [​IMG] Chile 26 (-1)

    7 [​IMG] Paraguay 24 (-6)

    8 [​IMG] Ecuador 20 (-3)

    I don't think it will be very different this time around either. I do agree Paraguay and especially Ecuador will be a lot tougher. Ecuador's new manager plays a classic 4-4-2 counter-attacking game that will make them almost impossible to beat in Quito. I can easily see them beating Peru, Chile and Paraguay up there. Which will be their main rivals. They will struggle to get away points though, but they could get draws if they play a deep 4-4-2 and that might be all they need.

    I haven't seen enough about Paraguay to make up my mind on their chances. But so far, from those 4 teams, Ecuador look promising. However I said the same thing last time around when they started incredible and imploded towards the end.
     
  12. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    He didn't say that. He suggested that the Chilean league is strong enough to produce qualifier-ready players so they don't need Europe. Which is also wrong, but it's not the same as saying we are better than Europe's best. :D
     
  13. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    I don't know if that's wrong to be honest.

    Chile's league is crap now, the gap between Chile and Peru's league has never been closer. I'd still have you above us though, and we qualified with a new base, starting in the Copa America 2016 of only local players.

    That said, we were pretty flat in attack until they started to go abroad and then things began to change.
     
  14. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    I think it is. If we were forced to only use players from the Chilean league we would be at the level of Bolivia and Venezuela fighting to avoid finishing last. I don't follow the Peruvian league so I can't comment, but if what you say is true then maybe your league is better than ours at the moment.
     
  15. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #40 Gilbertsson, Oct 17, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    I really thought that Chile had easier opponent in Peru. Because Chile had 2 Copa America titles. I also didn't expected those titles, but they became evident. Who would predict 7-0 against Mexico?
    Also, I said that Peru could achieve better results against Denmark and France. Peru played better than result might show that.

    This has nothing to do which South American team I like. There are several teams that I like to watch from South America. Some teams I watched more in childhood, they were more present in 1990's. Peru also had nice players: Solano (Newcastle). It was nice to watch him, Shearer, Bellamy.

    Also, I liked to watch matches of Ivan Zamorano, Marcelo Salas...

    We can't exactly say, where one South American national league stands, compared with European leagues. Brazilian league seems the strongest there, Argentine is also tough, but Penarol also can surprise others. Colombian, Mexican league evolved...

    That's why I asked him, where Chilean league stands today, compared with Bundesliga for example. In Europe, things are clear: Premierleague, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, Portuguese, Dutch...7 strongest leagues in Europe.

    A lot of Mexicans play in Mexican league, and Mexico is often good at World Cups.

    Brazilians, Argentinians like to play in Europe. You won't see a lot of NT players with domestic league status.

    Mexican Lozano played great today for Napoli, just like Colombian Ospina.

    When you remember my words, you could also mention my words, where I said that CONMEBOL must get more places at World Cup, not only 4+1 teams. Not so fair, compared with Asia, Africa, Europe.

    Chile and Peru will play in November. I wouldn't say that Chile will win this easy, but Chile is still favourite at home. 2-1 for example.

    Of course that I am aware that Chilean league isn't stronger than Bundesliga, or maybe Ligue 1. U. Catolica would lose against Bayern, but U. Catolica could win against Eintracht. They are fifth. You can't compare with PSG, Liverpool, Atletico Madrid...

    I meant on comparison, it's silly to say that South American league is equally strong just like top European leagues.

    Brazilian league would be maybe 2nd league in Europe, behind Spanish. My impression, maybe not objective.
     
  16. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    #41 posteador, Oct 18, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
    Compared to leagues in Europe, I'd say our league is as good the League 1 (that is, third division in British football league). And every 5 years there's a very good Chilean side that could go far internationally that could go as high as Championship level, or bottom of Premier League level. At the moment there are no such teams and none in the foreseeable future.

    I don't know what European league is at this level... maybe something like the Danish or Swedish first divisions? Maybe the Croatian league? Although the Croatian league is weird because they have one team that is usually vastly superior to all the others and is not a true representative of the League level (Dinamo Zagreb). Dinamo Zagreb would dominate the Chilean league at the moment.

    In S.America we are one of the weakest leagues. I'd say at the moment only Bolivia and Venezuela are behind us. With Peru we are more or less the same. Everyone else seems to produce better teams than us.

    I'd say the Brasileirao and Argentina's Primera Division are the only who constantly produce players good enough to keep them at the level (or above the level, depending on the year) of top European leagues like the Portuguese League or the Eredivisie for example.

    But leagues like Serie A, Premier League, La Liga and Bundesliga are far better than any in S.America.... and the world.
     
  17. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #42 Gilbertsson, Oct 18, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
    I watched the match in Mexico now, UNAM - Toluca, fast, attacking oriented, often not correct in passes, but such fast style is interesting. First goal was because of huge mistake of goalkeeper, it slipped through his arms, while he was on the ground, crossed over the line. No fans at stadium, atmosphere would be great for sure.

    Not sure where any South American league stands compared with European. Copa Libertadores winner losses against Champions League, but those clubs are always Barcelona, Real Madrid, Liverpool.

    Croatian league is strange, one club dominnant Dinamo Zagreb. All other clubs are allies of Dinamo Zagreb. Only Hajduk Split is the real opponent. Lokomotiva Zagreb is literally Dinamo Zagreb B Team.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NK_Lokomotiva

    Players of Dinamo often on loan in Lokomotiva.

    Varazdin club, Dinamo helps them because Croatian coach Dalic played, coached in Varazdin, so why not helping them.

    Osijek, youth club of Davor Suker, CFF President, so why not help. Counties elect the Croatian Football Federation, so they help to counties through clubs, everyone earns it and story goes on.

    Rijeka, numerous players on loan from Dinamo. Dinamo almost ended in knock out stage of Champions League, now in Europa League.

    Club president can't return in Croatia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdravko_Mamić

    Every 5, 10 years nice result of national team. Danish, Croatian, Swedish leagues have similar quality. All three countries surprise sometimes at World Cups, EURO's.

    https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2020

    South America

    https://www.kickalgor.com/2020/03/27/conmebol-ranking-1q2020-2/

    I often don't understand the criteria to enter in Copa Libertadores, Sudamericana.:rolleyes:

    Colombian league 3rd, interesting.

    Paraguay, Guarani, Libertad, Cerro Porteno, Olimpia...understandable.
    Just like Penarol, N. Montevideo.
     
  18. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    I didn't realize the Peruvian league was so low... I thought they were at our level. Colombia is no surprise... they always produce constant talent. They just need a bit more luck in producing world class players. A lot of good players, but only James Rodriguez is truly world class in my opinion.
     
  19. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    It's because we're embarrassing in continental competitions.

    What is true though is that we are a better talent farm than Bolivia, Venezuela and Chile.
     
  20. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    That doesn't mean much if your league pays lower wages though. Sometimes that is a barrier that stops players leaving early.
     
  21. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    This was good result:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_Alianza_Lima

    Copa Libertadores: 26 appearances
    Semi-finals (2): 1976, 1978

    Copa Sudamericana: 4 appearances
    2002: Quarter-finals

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_Universitario_de_Deportes
    Copa Libertadores:
    Runner-up (1): 1972

    Interesting, national team was also great in 70's, quarterfinal. Copa America title.
    Parallel of WC Russia and Copa America 2019. The game style was good. Victory against Croatia in friendly match, 2-0.

    https://www.iffhs.de
     
  22. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    That's why I thought that Chilean clubs keep their players, because Chile had economic stability. At least until protests, Covid 19. Chile doesn't have military revolutions.
     
  23. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    World Cup 1994 was Colombian great generation, just like World Cup 2014, 2018.
    Chile in 1998, 2010.
    Argentina was good in 1994, 1998, 2006, 2014.
    Uruguay, Paraguay interesting to watch.
     
  24. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    After thinking about it for a bit, our league has better local players, and your league has better foreigners.

    Your clubs are able to afford players like Blandi or Zampedri still relatively close to prime age, where as the best we can aspire is a half retired German Denis. However, I think all the best Chileans have already been exported. Peru still has a little bit to offer on that front.
     
  25. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    Probably, I don't know the Peruvian league. But I do know the Chilean league and I can tell you the players we have here are average at best. The best players are all foreigners.

    There are some good players abroad as you say. And not only the old "golden generation" guys. Good enough that we can challenge for that 5th spot + the experience of the veterans.
     

Share This Page