But what's the point of giving leeway if you're not going to let them play which is the one thing they came to do? Don't understand why there even was any sort of negotiation... Btw You don't have to check the entire passport, just the last weeks. It should be their most important job...
As I said in other forums, and couldn't resist, somehow this is not the worst of the abandoned WCQ matches of the day. Guinea x Morocco was canceled due to a coup d'état and the Moroccan players were stuck in the hotel trying to figure out if they could safely leave the country.
Not sure if it has changed lately, but passport stamps can be all over the place in the passport itself. It's not set out sequentially. Officials only typically check the last destination you were at if I am not mistaken. I could be wrong ... never paid that much attention when I've travelled internationally as to how much they looked into the pages.
Some video of the reaction as this happened: https://ge.globo.com/sportv/program...e-e-juninho-durante-paralisacao-9832277.ghtml Tite yelling "Vão fazer na hora do jogo?" Neymar saying "deu ruim" Messi saying they're leaving Juninho talking in Portunhol with some of the players and staff.
What a shit show today. I don’t trust the Argentinians for a second. Reminds me of the 1990 WC when Maradona botched the water given to Branco.
Denúncia de descumprimento da lei por parte de jogadores argentinos foi feita 40 horas antes do jogo.
I know most people here (at least those who have posted) are very focused on AFA's failure to properly fill out immigration forms. I have noted that there is far more blame to go around, including with Anvisa. I'm posting to share a fairly well-sourced podcast if anyone wants to listen: https://interativos.globoesporte.gl...-campo-um-vexame-que-sera-falado-por-decadas/ Also to put forward the argument (and prediction to follow) that CBF is responsible for making sure the match can go ahead. They failed to do so. They had all the tools necessary to make sure the exemption (which is specified in the same law) was obtained for this match. They literally called the wrong person to request the exception. My prediction: FIFA will determine that Brazil forfeit the match, because from FIFA's perspective, CBF was the host, CBF was responsible and CBF failed to provide a venue where the match could be held normally.
Thanks for the podcast. I'll try to catch it later. As for FIFA's decision - oh well. We'll have to see what they decide. Looks like CBF did notify AFA ahead of time, by the way.
More recent (to me) but shorter and also worth watching: The title is misleading since it says "Brasil vencedor?" but the reporter talking about FIFA makes it clear FIFA blames both AFA and CBF and sees CBF as the entity responsible for making sure the game goes ahead (and that they failed to do so). On AFA's side, FIFA is looking into whether the players lied to get on the field and whether AFA impeded/avoided the government entity.
Thanks again. Whatever happens - this is going down as probably the strangest episode in the history of our team's matches against them. And you can bet that whatever the conclusion, people on both sides of the border will be unhappy.
This might move faster than many have been assuming: 💣💣FIFA le abrió un procedimiento disciplinario a Brasil y le da seis días para que presente su descargo. Así, se busca acelerar el proceso y todos los caminos conducen a que Argentina gane el partido.— César Luis Merlo (@CLMerlo) September 6, 2021 FIFA has reportedly opened proceedings (one against Brazil and a separate one against Argentina) already, with a 6 day window for initial replies.
At the very least there is a clear lack of leadership at CBF. CBF was always corrupt, but it always did have competent leadership when it came down to the NT. As for Anvisa, they don't make the laws, they just have the power to implement them. I am not one of those that questions why they didn't act the first day the Argies were here. It probably takes some bureaucracy to get things going. But I do question how they acted on game day. The Argie NT avoiding them at the hotel is not an excuse unless they got there late. You find the bus and don't let it leave. At the stadium, saying the locker room was locked is most definitely not an excuse. There is one door in and out. The players were out on the field to practice less than an hour before kick off. And they could also have talked to the ref / game official . So that story needs to be clarified. I agree that we have a lot to be blamed for and will possibly be punished by losing 3 pts. I honestly don't care. On a side note ... some of those Argie posters are truly off the reservation with some of their rhetoric. We owned them for a decade and handed them humiliating losses after humiliating losses and after 1 win where the game was even (and a shit one at that), and they think we are afraid of them. SMH. Delusions of grandeur.
@Ombak, I watched the short YouTube video. It was interesting - CBF and AFA being both guilty. On the contrary, one of them actually admitted his team feared us and the continental final made them "lose fear." Ironic, because this guy is the most bigoted yet his user ID is the last name of a former manager of their NT - who is Jewish. EDIT: they have a slang with the acronym "LTA" (la tenes adentro) - in Portuguese it'd be akin to "vc tah com o pinto enfiado no teu cu." I threw that at one or two of them - years and years of losing to us and once they win, they are venting. It is crude and raw, but that poster (and a few others) deserved it.
@Ombak, I watched the short YouTube video. It was interesting - CBF and AFA being both guilty. Now, I found two very interesting videos. They are both from LN+ (Argentine TV news). You guys should watch at least one of them.
With all the journalistic interest into this situation, I am surprised nobody has yet to produce a copy of the immigration form that people coming from abroad are supposed to fill out. I am not sure Anvisa would make it public the form the Argies filled out.
It looks like CBF and AFA are going to have a bad relationship for some time to come. Yesterday, CBF stated in an official note that it notified AFA on July 5, then on August 11, and again on September 2 of all sanitation laws currently being enforced in Brazil. AFA stated in response that CONMEBOL rules make it the host's responsibility to manage a match's logistics and as such, CBF should have asked the Brazilian government for an exception for the June 23 law. CBF is alleging to FIFA that Argentina abandoned th ematch (WO) which would result in a 3-0 win for Brazil, while AFA will allege Brazil failed in the events organization, which would mean the points go to Argentina. This story is far from over.
He needs to show some proof that at every step the Argentinean delegation refused to receive documents with Anvisa's request. Also, the content of the supposed meeting between AFA, CBF, CONMEBOL, Anfisa, e o Ministerio de Saude Publica de SP, needs to be clarified. What did AFA, CBF, CONMEBOL say in that meeting ? What was the agreement if any. AFAIK they have said they weren't informed by Anvisa, but they haven't repudiated the existence of this meeting. As incompetent as Anvisa may have been, it seems strange that they are making all of this up.
This guy Feinmann is heavily anti-chiqui Tapia (AFA president) because he's also heavily anti-kirchnerist journalist (Tapia is protegee of the government). I'd take what he says about this with a grain of salt.
I can't watch the first video and I don't normally watch this program. I read his twitter and he more or less is posting same info that I've read from some brazilian media. Did he say anything here that isn't elsewhere? Not really feeling like watching all that. And.. don't want to fall into ad hominem but, again, that guy is some financial advisor, not really a journalist and of same political orientation as Feinmann so I'm a little bit skeptical.
He isn't just an expert on economics. He lives in Brazil, speaks Portuguese, and knows Brazil - especially the politics, the government, the system, how government entities operate. I am posting videos of him here and in the Argentina forums for one reason. He provides a level of familiarity with Brazil that many if not most of your compatriots do not have. And given he is one of your compatriots and that in these videos he is speaking on Argentine TV w/ his own compatriots about what's happening, you guys should (at least theoretically) see things about and in Brazil that you probably wouldn't have otherwise. Whatever his political orientation is - it does not mean he doesn't know what he's talking about. But if voting a certain way means one is not knowledgeable or can't be trusted about a certain topic.... oh well. I know a liberal guy whom I disagree with vehemently on many political topics, but in the areas where he's studied and has work experience, I don't dismiss it just because he votes differently than I do. Your choice.
Of course political orientation doesn't per se disqualify opinions, but these 2 are wackos with almost zero objectivity lmao, believe me (not everyone in this media conglomerate is like that, normally La Nación is good, it's mostly just Feinmann who is a clown). Besides, I don't need them to get the brazilian point of view and arguments, I know how to google and I can understand portuguese well enough
There's yet another video - it contains the LN+ interview with Alex Campos. You may want to watch this one, at least the first 17 minutes or so. From one of these videos, an anchorman stated that Fantino is aware about the allegation about four players from your team having disobeyed current Brazilian laws re: Covid-19. If this is the case, I can't see how this will be excluded from FIFA/TAS' evaluation. Alex Campos, the high-ranking Anvisa official, said to LN+ on one of those videos that the four players not only should not have entered Brazil; they should not even have flown from Venezuela to Brazil. As all of us here have traveled internationally, we all know that one declares one's destination country at the counter when embarking from where one is. With the June 23 law in place and their presence in the UK within the 14 days preceding their arrival date in Brazil, they shouldn't even have gone to Brazil. The form is filled out individually and online. And one of the anchormen on the other video stated that there was a childish mistake on the part of your team's delegation, made in Venezuela en route to Brazil. Whoever the person was, he provided false information (allegedly Fernando Batista) he wrote, "Madrid, Caracas." This was an error by AFA. You seem like someone who wants to get to the bottom of the story and you're refraining from the infantile, crude, and emotionally driven trash written over in the Argentina threads by some of your compatriots. I'll say this: I get that you guys got mad. Tite himself was furious. I wasn't happy either. This was confusing, strange, and ugly. However, if indeed the four players provided false information, they violated Brazilian law. And if they refused to let Anvisa into their locker room and refused repeatedly to heed the notifications (not just one) that the four were not allowed to play and needed to quarantine and if AFA knew from 3 communications sent by CBF in the past few months, then it's hard to see a case where there was at least some bad faith by some (not all - SOME, I emphasize) over in the Argentine side/delegation. In any case, WCQ matches tomorrow.
Yes, I know all of this but I can't say anything about it because it will depend on what material proof CBF can find and that isn't available to me. Also, as I've said elsewhere, I'm still not sure what exactly were the obligations of CBF as host (have read contradictory information about it). At this point I prefer to only wait and see what happens.
Fair enough. Truly, your compatriots (some of them) over on the other forum have taken such a detour from the facts it's fascinating. I hope you're not offended, but I already had, before Sunday's game, a certain view of you Argentines. You guys are Latin, you guys are passionate, many of you have Italian ancestry, and many of you are hot-tempered, get mad quickly, gesticulate, and scream, and go by emotions and feelings. I do wish to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, even if my interactions with them never go beyond the Internet. But the people there are doing nothing other than to reinforce that view I had of your people. I appreciate it that you're much calmer (or are making an effort at being calmer and much more rational.).