ELIMINATÓRIAS, R3: Argentina x Brasil, 12/11/15 [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by celito, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    [​IMG]
    Competition: WCQ 2018
    Location: Estadio Monumental, Buenos Aires
    Time: 19:00 EST

    Squad:
    Goleiros: Jefferson, Internacional, Cássio
    Laterais: Danilo, Dani Alves, Filipe Luis, Douglas Santos
    Zagueiros: David Luiz, Miranda, Gil, Gabriel Paulista
    Meias: Luiz Gustavo, Fernandinho, Elias, Renato Augusto, Oscar, Lucas Lima, Willian, Kaka
    Atacantes: Douglas Costa, Neymar, Hulk, Ricardo Oliveira
     
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  2. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #2 celito, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
    Remember, Marcelo and Marquinhos were cut with Douglas Santos and Gabriel Paulista called up in their place. On Argentina's side, they will be missing a lot of attacking power with Messi, Aguero, and now Tevez ruled out.

    This game is very winnable. Our probable starters up front Neymar, Hulk, Willian, Douglas Costa, and Ricardo Oliveira are in great form in their clubs, so one would hope that would translate carry over to the Selecao. Dunga was undefeated in his games vs Argentina last time around including the unforgettable WC spot clinching 3 x 1 win played in Argentina.
     
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  3. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    "One would only hope...." I've been hoping for a lot things so far and nothing has happened.
     
  4. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Well, I'd say this is the first time in a while we have a couple of guys attacking players doing really well in top European teams / leagues. I am not going to count Hulk because he has never played in a top league.
     
  5. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yet Dunga will still play Oscar, maybe Hulk and bench DC.

    We have no idea who's playing GK or RB. Danilo looked to have his hands full this past weekend. Alves was never Dunga's first option until his hand was forced. Let's see what sort of logic he applies to this scenario. I'm losing hope in trusting Dunga with player selection and management.
     
  6. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    I don't trust Dunga at all at this point. We had a winnable game against Chile and Dunga botched that.
     
  7. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Having Neymar back is enough to make me excited and optimistic again. I'm pretty confident about the starting 11 and the 3 subs available against any team right now but dunga is the buzz kill in the room.
     
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  8. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Rep for anyone who finds a provisional Argentina 11. I checked their forum and it didn't seem to be active
     
  9. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think it is a very tough lineup choice. Neymar needs to be on the left and I don't like the idea of him as a false 9, the false 9 has fazed out and for good reason , it's dumb to play Neymar there even if it would work which I doubt. I'd probably try Costa on the right and bench Willian but dunga wouldn't do it regardless of Willians form. I think I'd probably start with Douglas Costa on the bench too if I was dunga. It sucks to think about but I can't bitch if he does it. Oscar is a different story though.
     
  10. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Cant tell you the starting 11, but this is who Tata called up
    Caps-Goals -Club
    GK Sergio Romero (1987-02-22) 22 February 1987 (age 28) 68 -0 Manchester United
    GK Nahuel Guzmán (1986-02-10) 10 February 1986 (age 29) 6 -0 UANL
    GK Agustín Marchesín (1988-03-16) 16 March 1988 (age 27) 2- 0 Santos Laguna

    DF Martín Demichelis (1980-12-20) 20 December 1980 (age 34) 49- 2 Manchester City
    DF Marcos Rojo (1990-03-20) 20 March 1990 (age 25) 39- 2 Manchester United
    DF Nicolás Otamendi (1988-02-12) 12 February 1988 (age 27) 28 -1 Manchester City
    DF Facundo Roncaglia (1987-02-10) 10 February 1987 (age 28) 9 -0 Fiorentina
    DF Emmanuel Más (1989-01-15) 15 January 1989 (age 26) 4- 0 San Lorenzo
    DF Gino Peruzzi (1992-06-09) 9 June 1992 (age 23) 4- 0 Boca Juniors
    DF Ramiro Funes Mori (1991-03-05) 5 March 1991 (age 24) 3- 0 Everton
    DF Jonathan Maidana (1985-07-29) 29 July 1985 (age 30) 2- 0 River Plate

    MF Javier Mascherano (captain) (1984-06-08) 8 June 1984 (age 31) 120- 3 Barcelona
    MF Ángel Di María (1988-02-14) 14 February 1988 (age 27) 68- 15 Paris Saint-Germain
    MF Éver Banega (1988-06-29) 29 June 1988 (age 27) 36- 4 Sevilla
    MF Lucas Biglia (1986-01-30) 30 January 1986 (age 29) 35 -0 Lazio
    MF Javier Pastore (1989-06-20) 20 June 1989 (age 26) 27 -2 Paris Saint-Germain
    MF Enzo Pérez (1986-02-22) 22 February 1986 (age 29) 15- 1 Valencia
    MF Érik Lamela (1992-03-04) 4 March 1992 (age 23) 14 -1 Tottenham Hotspur
    MF Nicolás Gaitán (1988-02-23) 23 February 1988 (age 27) 11- 2 Benfica
    MF Matías Kranevitter (1993-05-21) 21 May 1993 (age 22) 3 -0 River Plate

    FW Carlos Tevez (1984-02-05) 5 February 1984 (age 31) 76 -13 Boca Juniors
    FW Gonzalo Higuaín (1987-12-10) 10 December 1987 (age 27) 52 -25 Napoli
    FW Ezequiel Lavezzi (1985-05-03) 3 May 1985 (age 30) 46- 6 Paris Saint-Germain
    FW Ángel Correa (1995-03-09) 9 March 1995 (age 20) 3 -1 Atlético Madrid
    FW Paulo Dybala (1993-11-15) 15 November 1993 (age 21) 1- 0 Juventus
     
  11. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Ready for Cassio or Alisson to get the nod along with Danilo?
     
  12. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Tevez has a knock on the knee so he will miss the game vs us but may be back vs Colombia on the 17th!!
     
  13. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Lol no. Fair point, I can't rule it out. I'm hoping he makes a rational calm decision and just goes with Jefferson. I think it'd be redicoulis if he benched Alves but at least it seems like he legit rates Danilo. I don't have answers for the gk situation but I really do think Cassio and Allison are liabilities at this level. Kind of scary to think about...
     
  14. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  15. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Even though, Lucas Lima deserve a start. I can't really argue with that lineup either. It's unfortunate but someone has to drop out.
     
  16. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA

    If we are going to discuss "winnability," every game Brazil plays is "winnable." The 1950 and 1998 World Cup finals were winnable, but we blew them both due to either individual errors, poor tactical/player selections, and/or a solid performance by the opponent. Even the semifinal vs. Germany in 2014 was "winnable." Roque Jr. advised the management staff to crowd the midfield with strong, beefy volantes to neutralize Germany's playmaking; after all, Algiers (ALGIERS!) of all teams not only lost to Germany only in stoppage time in the second overtime period, they came close to upsetting the Germans. Team USA likewise did not do poorly against Germany either. As we know, our former coach made horrible roster selections, and the rest is history.

    Or was the home qualifier against Uruguay in November 2003, the 1996 Olympic semifinal vs. Nigeria, or other games, not "winnable?"

    I think I know what you're getting at, but any game can be won. We had chances against Chile, but Chile has been a very solid and strong team for quite a while. Losing at their stadium was no shock and frankly, no shame. A disappointment, but not an embarrassment.
     
  17. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    One of their main newspapers' sports pages speculates that Gerardo Martino may deploy a midfield-heavy starting XI with 3 holding midfielders (volantes de contenção), and if so, the following is that newspaper's team for the opening whistle:

    Romero
    Roncaglia, Otamendi, Funes Mori and Marcos Rojo
    Banega, Mascherano and Lucas Biglia
    Di María, Higuaín and Lavezzi (or Ángel Correa)

    Except for Marcos Rojo, I think this back line is quite vulnerable. Their defense has been their weakness, and injuries have further weakened that section. Mascherano is a warrior as always - Dunga did face (and defeat) him in 2009, and therefore, let's hope that Dunga sets up a proper scheme. The guy breaks up plays like a boss.

    Otamendi is an old friend of Brazil's - he failed miserably (along with Gabriel Heinze) in Luisão's goal at Rosario 6 years ago (see video below). He's young, and he did not participate in the 2014 World Cup (although he was in Chile this year). However, if one of the starting back 4 is Gino Peruzzi (who was capped to replace Ezequiel Garay), alert for Dunga. Peruzzi was that defender from Velez Sarsfield who stuck to Neymar like superglue in that 2012 Libertadores semifinal. Seldom have I seen such dogged one-on-one defending for an entire match. Fortunately for us, this Brazil NT has more offensive options than the 2012 Santos did, so Peruzzi most likely won't be deployed to mark Neymar one-on-one.

    Di María is their most dangerous front line option. Our zagueiros know that - let's hope they translate that knowledge into proper marking.

     
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  18. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think he means "winnable" in terms of "game flow" rather than expectations heading into the game. Basically every game is winnable for Brazil. Given the game flow of the France (98) and Germany (14) games, they weren't winnable. The Chile game was 0-0 in the second half and we blew several excellent counter attacking opportunities. It was winnable.
     
  19. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Banega and Biglia can both distribute the ball better than our volantes. Banega can also come into attack and score goals, like he did vs Madrid this weekend.

    In attack, I agree. Higuain is in good form for Napoli, but he usually chokes on the NT. I'm not too worried about Lavezzi.

    Their back line is a weakness, but I don't think it's bad as you say. I've been impressed with Funes Mori at Evertoj; he's been solid. Otamendi has gotten better since the Rosario game and has had a good campaign for City. Rojo is capable and I have my doubts about Roncaglia. I've been unimpressed with him since he left Boca.
     
  20. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Their GK isn't playing much at United and he isn't very good either. He is
     
  21. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yep, GK is a big question mark for them.
     
  22. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  23. PMLF

    PMLF Member

    Jul 20, 2004
    Rio de Janeiro, Bra
    Other sites speculate this line-up:

    Alisson; Daniel Alves, David Luiz, Miranda e Filipe Luís, Luiz Gustavo, Elias, Oscar, Willian e Douglas Costa, Neymar
     
  24. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Safe to say no1 knows then
     
  25. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Oscar starting over any attacking player outside of Kaka is a slap in the face. Even, Hulk is coming into this game balling .
     

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