While many, including USSF, may think this unprofessional, does anyone make comments to, and only to, spectators in an attempt to educate them on the ir incorrect screams of handball, high kick, etc? My favorite in routine league games is when they scream hand ball when a player gets blasted with the ball from 5 feet away, I say out load, "no such thing as a hand ball in soccer" - normally, after the game a spectator will ask my what that means and I trach them about deliberate handling and ask them to educate their friends. It also appears that in this forum, many, whom I have to assume are not certified referees, talk about hand ball, perpetuating the myth and mis-information. We, as certified referees, should always post with correct names of fouls and technical infractions.
Maybe.... I think it's great to teach. But be careful of becoming pedantic. Even many high level players use "inaccurate" short hand to describe things. It's true in all sports. No big deal. In the US, we have many participants with limited background in our sport. So, it can be true that "bad" vocabulary is a sign of lack of understanding. I agree with you there.
I do NOT respond to anything spectators say, good or bad. (Well, unless they're getting into racial, ethnic, etc. stuff, in which case the game stops and the coach takes care of it.) You will be viewed as a pedant or a wise-ass if you respond like this. Neither will get you respect from anyone out there. You also give the spectators an opening that lets them think they can "discuss" the game and your calls with you while the game is going on. Not a place where I want them to be.
I never respond to anything from a spectator unless I am taking action against them by having the coach of the team they support go over and let them know that anything further will result in the match being stopped until they leave the premises. As for spectator comments along the lines of "handball!, and "high kick (might as well throw in "you can't kick it on the ground") I tend to announce "not deliberate", "not dangerous" and "not dangerous", respectively, before players or spectators have a chance to give their 2 cents' worth. Edit: I once did stop a youth game -- which was awful with parents criticizing their children --to walk to the touch line and address the parents with a "Folks, out of respect for the players, let's please keep our comments positive."
Sometimes it's harder being a spectator. Especially when everyone around you knows you are a referee. At my daughter's games I try to explaing things as they happen the best I can without being biased or criticizing the referee . Immediate feedback seems to help people understand the calls in the abstract as it relates to that game at that moment. I also find that the parents seem to complain less when I'm there. At least I've been told that by local refs that work my daughter's games.
Only time in recent years I remember specifically addressing the fans was after I came back from giving an explanation for a caution on a high school game. My JR AR was very green so he was a deer in the head lights when two other players went chest to chest and the fans started to encourage them to fight. Luckily I broke it up before it happened and chewed the fans with a quick few words that set the tone enough for everyone to realize how idiotic they were being. Other than that I am with most people that I don't address the fans. I tell the coaches to fix it or I will end the match, but that is very rare to even get that far.
Ok, this isn't directed at the OP but I just have to get this off my chest Why, why do we always feel the need to be priggish with our insistence that every word be out of the pages of the LOTG? I used to think it was because we (in the US) wanted to hold ourselves to the international standard. That, by some magical blessing by the writers of the LOTG, if we only say offside our soccer program will be respected in the far corners of the word. And then, I find that amazingly those true fans of futbol call it a hand ball. What? I'm so confused. While I enjoy occasionally poking fun at players during the game (you may play on the ground but you may not play dangerously!) the bottom line is, so what? If a player asks you what the call was, ref, and you say "hand ball" are you going to lose control of the match? What if you say the player violated Law 12 by deliberately handling the ball? I would say both effectively communicated the information but the latter probably left the player thinking, "Who the hell is this guy?" I do try and use the correct language but everyone has to understand there is slang in soccer. To walk around and educate fans is obtuse and it is my personal opinion that it adds to the negative perception people have of referees. I might be taking this too far and, again, just something that annoys me. There, I feel better
Hey, it's not just us knuckleheads here on the forum — FIFA is guilty of this too. From the "Amendments to the laws of the Game - 2012/2013" circular dated 31 May 2012: ReasonIt is more important to punish the consequence that the hand ball created rather than the fact that it was blatant. In fact, a hand ball could be inconspicuous but certainly very important. Furthermore, it is difficult to define what is meant by "blatantly" (p. 113), and therefore to have a uniform interpretation, especially by referees from different countries or continents with very different experiences. Deleting the word "blatantly", and providing that if the hand ball prevented the opponent from gaining possession the player must be cautioned, makes the interpretation easier (p. 117).
Not to disagree with you or undervalue your opinion, but I think we do this to try and make the distinction between futbol and the other sports. American football is a very static, stop and go game with strict cut and dried decisions, whereas futbal is a very flowing game where many decisions are subjective or not called at all. In pointy football, you can be offsideS, but in futbol you can only be off of one side at a time and thereby offside. For someone to understand that "handling" may occur many times in a match, but only when the referee determines the "hand ball" to be deliberate will he punish it is important to everyone's enjoyment of the game. Anyone yelling "handball" everytime a ball strikes a player's arm is distracting to the players, spectators and the referee. Do we always have to use the LOTG teminology? Sometimes it's probably better to use slang to more easily enable understanding. Whether you call deliberate handling of deliberate hand ball, the operative word is deliberate. Will these semantic adjustments change anyones understanding of the game? Probably not, but sometimes it is the small things that "turn the lightbulb on" in peoples' heads.
YMMV, but... The maximum interaction between me and spectators is: a wink, a smile, or a dirty look. That is it. Actual interaction is a loosing battle with so many downsides and unintended consequences I could not list 'em all here. In recent memory I've used a coach (removal of a spectator who hurt my feelings by yelling at my crew), a league discipline representative (to move them for hurting my feelings by insulting one team and sitting behind the goal-line). I'm a sensitive guy, just ask my buds. I used to, but no longer!, feel the need to correct players/coaches/referees on proper terminology. This is simply not what we should be spending our valuable compute cycles on, the game and it's management is. I do still, at times, gently suggest proper terms to referees. And always when teaching class. I do this only because it gives them more credibility with players/coaches, and it is free.
No way in hell do I even give response to spectators. That is a complete losing battle. You will never win an argument with them. So why bother? Just ref the best you can, smile, shake the players' hands, coaches' hands, write up match report, smile on the way to car, start car, and get the hell out.
There is nothing positive that can happen for you by engaging the parents (spectators) in conversation about the game, calls, referee. The only thing I will generally give parents is how much time could be left in the match at a minimum. Ref, how much time left? At least 15, etc.
I disagree. As an AR, I have had many quick, positive engagement with parents. As CR, I have too much going on to trouble with. We need to lose the idea that parents are always the enemy. You have to know how to pick your spots, but it can work.
We're differentiating our "very flowing" game from the "strict cut and dry" American football by being pedantic about our terminology? What? Look, I get it. I just want to get the point across that being a passionate fan of the beautiful game does not require the correct terminology. And, by trying to educate the masses you might actually turn someone off to the sport entirely. I'll fully admit that I told the Grade 9 class I taught this weekend that we would use the right terminology in the classroom. But I didn't tell them to sit in the stands and run a clinic. Referees are the professional so we are held to a higher standard.
It has nothing to do with the parent as the enemy mantra. It has to do with the fact that it makes life easier for everyone if you just not engage them about certain calls or nuances of the game. Since we are held to a higher standard by default, why stoop down from the perch arguing a call when there is going to be no winner in a debate, with the exception the CR has the final say in the game? Nothing is going to change their minds. It makes it a lot easier to be civil when you don't engage with spectators and just focus on your game while doing your best.
I don't believe you read my entire post. What I essentially said is, by not always using strict LOTG language to explain things to non-referees, we can enable their ability to understand the laws. What we do need to convey are the key words and phrases that are essential in understanding how we do our job. Words like "deliberate(ly)" (and/or synonyms of it). Or how playing the ball while on the ground is okay unless you are in danger of injury, could cause injury to others, or are preventing others from playing safely. I come from what I call the football belt between central GA and AL. People are going to say "offsideS" no matter what, and there is no use to try and change that. It is simply what they are used to. You can say "offside" in conversation, but I think they hear "offsideS" anyway.
Who said anything about arguing a call? Mainly you make your hay on confused, rather than combative, parents.
Yes. In the center I will ignore the parents. However, on the line I will answer a question about time or if there is some confusion. An example. U 14 Girls game. Girl in an offside position comes back to recieve a long pass. I pop my flag. Parents are grumbling and ask who was offsides? I respond right striker came from offside to recieve the ball. No further questions and the grumbling stopped. I have had situations where I have completely ignored parents (on the line of course) and it actually made the situation worse, when a five second answer could have alleviated the problem. Some parents believe that you ignoring them means that you feel guilty or that you got a call wrong, at least at younger levels.
This is my reason for this thread. Many times a mis-informed spectator will yell out "handball" and sometimes the players stop playing. You can argue the players should play until the whistle sounds, but they still stop sometimes. As AR on spectator side, when I am near the spectator who did the yelling, I simply say out loud, without turning around and looking at the spectatorswf, something like "the foul is called deliberate handling and what you saw was not deliberate." Frequntly, especially U14 and under, a spectator will say out loud, "I never knew that - thought every time the ball touched a hand or arm, it was a handball". To me, this does some good for the rest of the game and in the future. I am not talking about arguing calls, just making an informed comment to no one in particular.
Mandatory educational video are the solution, referees 'flag' problem coaches or spectators who need reeducating and special treatment. The video is repeated 10,000 times. Wonderful topics such as: Handball is an Olympic sport, not a foul in soccer. Offside, NOT Offsides. Playing the ball while on the ground is not automatically a foul. "I got it" is not a foul.
While I feel, in general, that parents/fans want to be better educated about the game, it's not the time or place to do so during the game. Everybody has their emotions and biases that cloud such judgment. I believe people are more well receptive to such information any time other than game time. That's not to say I won't acknowledge a parent/fan -- particularly in a middle school or U-12 game -- if the atmosphere is right. If someone unexpectedly gets nailed with a ball, I'll usually quip, "good seats, huh?" That's usually gets a laugh, as those parents aren't taking the game too seriously. You have to know your audience. I most likely won't be doing that at a varsity game. I've only had a few varsity games where I felt the fans needed a remedial rules clinic. Sitch 1, my first varsity boys' game: H-1 is playing the ball on the touchline in front of a few V fans. V fan #1 is yelling at me how I could miss that ball being out of bounds. V fan #2 says, "I think the ball has to be all the way out." V fan #3 confirms this. V fan #1 cries at #3, "Well, don't help him!" Sitch 2, varsity girls, two-man crew: While I'm on the line early in the half, a ball sails out of bounds behind my back, and one loudmouth V fan yells at me, "C'mon, stop that!" I thought this was rather humorous, so I acknowledge it by lifting my foot back behind me. That got a laugh from him, but I'm not sure if I should have opened the door -- or if it really mattered -- because he wouldn't shut up after that. Every H throw-in from that point on was "illegal, ref! Too much spin!" I felt the need to tell him that rule hasn't existed in over a decade, but I let it all go, and let him drown in his own ignorance. Of course, one of the H players taking the throw looked at him and yelled, "it looks like someone doesn't know the rules!" (It didn't stop him.) At the end of the half, I walked back to the bench with her and told her it's not worth it to deal with fans like that. It's not easy, but you just have to let fans act stupid, as long as they're not profane or demeaning. It's not their game, anyway.
I had one situation at a tournament where there were unlimited subs and as per the ROC, these were allowed at any stoppage. I had a group of parents behind the one end line who were quite vocal that Blue couldn't sub on Red's throw in. I waved them down but they continued for a while. At the half, I walked directly toward them and they got very concerned that I was going to yell at them, but I assured them, no, I was just going to my cooler, which was in the shade behind them. As I walked back to the field after some grapes and gatorade, I did say "I understand there is some question about the substitution rules for the tournament?" and got a chance to educate them very quickly about the whole concept of Rules of the Competition. Not a peep the rest of the game, and all was good.