Edson Álvarez & Jorge Sánchez @ AFC Ajax

Discussion in 'Mexicans Abroad' started by Y tu mama tambien, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. If the base in football isnot good, tactical and technical, in the league, we wouldnot stand a chance anyway in Europe. The reason we stumble isnot because of our bad clubs, it's because of the semi-annual robbing that takes place.
    When Ajax made their semi final run (as with PSV under Hiddink) it was because of a few top talents decided to stay longer with the club, instead of taking a hike with the first club waving a sack of gold in front of them.
    Just look at the Orange Squad for decades run (as the only small population country) with the big countries as one of the few always to be mentioned for a deep WC run.
    You donot get that when only the top Dutch clubs are tactically and technically astute. Other countries have in their leagues two or three clubs with top quality tactical and technical players too, but never apart from once in a lifetime fluke deep run at a WC.
    So it's a deceptive look to take on Dutch clubs runs in the UEFA competitions.
    It leads to the wrong conclusions.
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I don't know about other teams making it through, but Ajax have. In fact in 2018-19 they went through three rounds and made it to the CL semifinals defeating Real Madrid and Juventus along the way only to lose on an injury time goal to Tottenham. Had the away goals rule not been in effect that season the game would have gone to extra time. As I noted in my previous post, virtually all Dutch clubs lose one or more starting players each season because they have to sell to balance accounts. Our clubs don't have ATMs like Real Madrid and Barca nor the huge television revenue of the EPL.
     
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  3. Athazagoraphobia

    Jul 28, 2012
    Vancouver
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I was thinking of the Lainez discussion when I wrote that.
     
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  4. blue4211

    blue4211 Member

    Jul 22, 2012
    Club:
    CDSC Cruz Azul
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    The Dutch for the last 50 years have been producing great players based on their 4-3-3 Total Football system. Also they produced players with high football IQs and skill level. For an interesting look at that 50 years read, Brilliant Orange by David Winner.
    Now on to Alvarez, no doubt he's improved but I have seen him make mistakes this season with Ajax and the national team where he's given up the ball in bad spaces and when he's fouled people from behind to stop an attack but get a yellow card early in the game. I would like to see him improve his long range passing so the threat is there and also taking shots from long distance. I think he should look at Casemiro from Real Madrid as a player to emulate. Who knows he could be the player that takes over for Casemiro in 2-3 years.
     
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  5. la fresa

    la fresa Member+

    Oct 31, 2005
    texas
    Club:
    Serbian White Eagles
    I’m not denying the base is technical, I question how important tactics are when the level of competition is just not very good. If the second place Dutch league teams typically can’t make it past Croatian and Slovenian teams in Europe, what is the value of hyper specific technique? If I play devils advocate as well - in terms of development, how many players from the Ajax semi-final team have transcended with man United, juventus Barcelona etc? I think at this point having some players in the Dutch league to develop is great, I will not deny that, but it shouldn’t be the standard for top Mexican players, striving in the top clubs and playing good completion every week is more valuable as Herrera and chicharito proved capable of doing.
     
  6. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    de Ligt - starter at Juve; Ziyech - rotation player at Chelsea and he was ahead of Pulicic earlier this season; Frenkie de Jong - starter at Barca. van de Beek is a disappointment because he picked the wrong team to move to. Had he moved to the Bundesliga he would be a starter. Six starters from the team are still with Ajax including Onana who is serving out a drug suspension.

    Anyway, this is not a particularly useful conversation to have. Alvarez has improved to the point that he is a starter in a top Euro club. That is the key point.
     
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  7. wolfpupz

    wolfpupz Member+

    Jan 24, 2011
    SJCA
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Some guys just think that when our guys do good in liga mx it means that they can automatically make it into any top la liga/ serie A/ EPL/ Bundesliga team :rolleyes:
     
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  8. This weekends top 3 players by AD Sportwereld:
    upload_2021-9-27_0-40-39.png
     
  9. The fallacy is looking at the Dutch clubs progressing, as I explained they get robbed from their best each window.
    It's not only the top clubs in the league that deliver players, it are the low flying clubs too like FC Groninge, Heracles etc.
    The superclubs in Europe focus on Ajax and PSV players. Those with smaller wallets look at players outside the top clubs and doing so get quality for bargain prices. Atalanta for instance has been doing good runs in the CL and Serie A, thanks to bargains they scooped up at FC Groningen and Heracles. They for instance bought for a mere two million dual national Dutch/German Gosens from Heracles. I was for a long time clamouring Koeman to select him before numbhead Löw wakes up, but he didnot. Gosens is now German national team right back.
    The reason why the Orange Squad stays a powerhouse since the 70ies is simply due to the fact that from amateur level up to pro level development is done from the same tactical and technical pov. The success of our players or foreign players developing over here simply is the result of a unity in pov in the whole soccer pyramid in the Netherlands. Dismissing everything outside the top 3 of the Dutch league is not understanding the integrated mission of Dutch football.
    As I stated many countries in Europe are bigger than the Netherlands with the top clubs being able to outspend us most of the times. Yet these countries cannot hold a candle to us as a national team.
    The reason is that also by them belittled Dutch league. They simply donot get it and as such we will keep trumping them with our national team.
     
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  10. AD Sportwereld matchday 7 Team of the Week:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. sidspaceman

    sidspaceman Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 20, 2002
    AMÉRICA DE CALI
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
     
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  12. :cautious:
    Why do you need confirmation of info I give?
    You know I only give you the truth......or stay silent:cool:
     
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  13. DGreat

    DGreat Moderator
    Staff Member

    CD Guadalajara
    Mexico
    Oct 5, 2007
    El Ombligo
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    This is the attitude to carry. How bad do you want it?
     
  14. Athazagoraphobia

    Jul 28, 2012
    Vancouver
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    He’s having a great game vs Besiktas.
     
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  15. Paganitzu

    Paganitzu Member+

    Aug 16, 2006
    New York City
    Club:
    PSV Eindhoven
    In general, he is doing great! He should stay, Ajax is building something nice and long-term.

    As others have shown, leaving is no guarantee of something better, and in the current football climate, Ajax can holds its own against the better teams. The days that a 4-0 loss in the CL against a top team are expected/feared are past us (incl. PSV).
     
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  16. Kaney

    Kaney Sleeping Dragon
    Staff Member

    Dec 12, 2005
    Lake County, IL AKA Southern Wisconsin
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Won't Ajax and PSV want to cash in on those players with transfer fees eventually? That's a huge source of income for them. I know they want to build successful teams however they're still businesses also and need revenue to reinvest.
     
  17. Paganitzu

    Paganitzu Member+

    Aug 16, 2006
    New York City
    Club:
    PSV Eindhoven
    Alvarez is getting old (24), and Ajax has more than enough money.

    They also have other bigger cash cows, I think as long as Alvarez extends the contract I can't see them selling him. And Ajax is providing pretty decent salaries for the strong holders these days.

    Memphis Depay earns 5 million euros in Barcelona, whereas the top-earner of Ajax is pretty close to that amount.

    Times have changed.
     
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  18. Nice to see you back again, @Paganitzu
    Was a bit worried...you know ..covid....America
     
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  19. Paganitzu

    Paganitzu Member+

    Aug 16, 2006
    New York City
    Club:
    PSV Eindhoven
    Nobody watched him?

    Ajax is a potential CL-winning candidate.
     
  20. Sleepy Spaceman

    Sleepy Spaceman Member+

    Nov 6, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    fotmob rated him as the best midfielder today.

    This Ajax team is fun to watch. Credit to their coach.
     
  21. superm

    superm Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    Unfortunately no, but by the comments byAjax fans, it seems like everyone is very happy with his improvement especially his passing. And again sounded like he was solid as he usually is on defense. Hopefully Ajax can avoid injuries and make a deep run as they have a really good team.
     
  22. TheColorfulKit

    Fire
    Mexico
    Jan 2, 2021
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
  23. TheColorfulKit

    Fire
    Mexico
    Jan 2, 2021
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Also, reports out of the Netherlands say Ajax and Edson want to negotiate a new contract.

     
  24. Kaney

    Kaney Sleeping Dragon
    Staff Member

    Dec 12, 2005
    Lake County, IL AKA Southern Wisconsin
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Doo It! Raise the release clause. Ajax wins when they get big transfer monies and whoever buys him gets a once-rough diamond beautifully polished by Ajax...
     
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