Ecuador WCQ Matches vs Colombia and Bolivia

Discussion in 'Ecuador - National Team' started by Luigi408, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Here is the call up list from Rueda for the next two games.

    1. Achillier Zurita Gabriel.
    2. Arroyo Mina Michael.
    3. Ayoví Corozo Walter.
    4. Ayovi Corozo Jaime.
    5. Bagui Angúlo Oscar.
    6. Banguera Valdivieso Máximo.
    7. Bone Sánchez Adrián.
    8. Caicedo Corozo Felipe.
    9. Castillo Nazareno Segundo.
    10. Corozo Vásquez Gabriel.
    11. Domínguez Carabalí Alexander.
    12. Erazo Vivero Frickson.
    13. Guagua Tamayo Jorge.
    14. Guerrón Joffre.
    15. Ibarra Mina Renato.
    16. Méndez Méndez Edison.
    17. Mina Villalba Narciso.
    18. Montero Vite Jefferson.
    19. Noboa Tello Christian.
    20. Paredes Juan Carlos.
    21. Quiñónez Rodríguez Pedro.
    22. Rojas Mendoza Joao.
    23. Saritama Luis Fernando.
    24. Valencia Lastra Enner.
    25. Valencia Mosquera Antonio.

    WTF is E. Valencia called up ahead of Martinez?!?!?!?! ********ing Rueda is stupid! E. Valencia is a terrible player! Ibarra and Valencia already play ahead of him. I don't get his call up to the NT.
     
  2. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    #2 Luigi408, Aug 26, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
    Another thing is WHY keep calling Saritama?! He has been sucking for a whole year! *he has always sucked. I watch this past weekend's game of Liga and Saritama was freaking terrible!

    This is one of the worse call ups IMO.

    These are the following players that should NEVER be called.

    Jorge Guagua (SD Quito) (He is one of the worse defenders I've seen)

    Juan Carlos Paredes (BSC) (Terrible! I can't believe he keeps getting called up)

    Édison Méndez (LDU) (Too old and slow. Saw this weekends game and he is just too slow)

    Luis Saritama (LDU) (Again saw this weeks game and he was one of the worse players in the mid for Liga)

    Énner Valencia (CS Emelec) (WTF is he called up ahead of Matinez? Martinez is a million time better than this loser)

    Narciso Mina (América) (He is pretty bad in America. He is going to end up in the bench.)

    These players are in a terrible form in their teams and have performed terrible in the NT. Who in the right mind calls E. Valencia over Martinez who scored, plays great internationally, and plays in a much better league then the Ecuadorian league? Rueda is out of his dumb mind.
     
  3. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I agree with you on Guagua. Besides that, I can make an argument for and against the other players.

    JC Paredes: may not be in his best moment, but he's the player who Rueda has worked with this entire Qualifier and has accumulated experience. I don't think he should start, but he should be on the bench. It's a shame Paredes' form has taken such a nose dive since going to BSC.

    Edison Mendez: I disagree with you about this weekends game. If anything I think he's improved even in Liga ever since the game he had with the NT vs. Spain. You gotta remember that Mendez's style of playing was never about SPEED. He offers other qualities. Yes, he may be slower but you don't gotta be speedy gonzales in Mendez's position to offer great quality to the NT. Do I think he should start? most likely not b/c at NT level the pressure is greater and i don't think he's up for 90 minutes of that type of intensity. But should he be on the NT? YES! I thought his time was up but honestly he transforms on the NT. He offers that ball distribution, vision, pause, and helps the team keep possession. A team that has a player like him has a leader. So IMO, he's a necessity in the NT especially in times like these where we lost a player like Chucho who offered that creativity in the middle of the field. He has my support.

    Saritama: I'll say this, he never was a favorite of mine to be a part of the NT either. Maybe not so much because I think he's bad but b/c he is too regular...average. Saritama isn't any different than what he was in D.Quito vs. what he is in Liga. He's plays at the same level, he's just regular. Maybe he stood out more in D.Quito b/c he was the team's icon and played a different position, but when you switch teams (especially when you go to a big team like Liga) you're not always going be the star anymore. You start from 0 once again and build your way up. In the NT, he's had good games where he's shut me up....more b/c he has balls and garra when he plays, he's always trying, and I can't complain about that. But as far as quality- yes he's not as good as a Noboa or even a Gaibor for that matter. The thing is Rueda has invested time in him now for us to switch things completely around in such a complicated and decisive time during a qualifier. Personally, if I were Rueda I would have never insisted on Saritama since the Copa America....I would have gone for Gaibor and worked with him, but Saritama hasn't been horrible either. He's been average. maybe more ups than downs....but as fans we always want more, so i understand where you're coming from.

    Enner Valencia: I'll start with saying I agree with you that Fidel should be called up. I actually mentioned this for the game vs. Spain- How is it that Ener Valencia gets called up just b/c he had 2-3 good games where he's scored? But he's continued scoring since then, so that's more of an argument for Rueda to use to support his decision. I personally think Ener Valencia along with Marcos Caicedo are players who have their moments during every season. It happens everyyyyyyy year if you guys have kept up with them. They are never consistent. They have their moments and that's it. I guess Rueda wants to take advantage of Ener's moment just like when he called up Marcos Caicedo at the beginning of the yr. vs. Paraguay. I mean who scored for Emelec this weekend again? Ener. So Rueda can argue in favor of this call up. Personally I think players like Fernando Guerrero and Junior Sornoza are much better although one of them plays on the left and the other plays as a media punta. Hopefully he doesn't disappoint if he gets a chance on the pitch, but I doubt he gets a single minute of playing time.

    Narciso Mina: Also another player that hasn't been one of my favorites but we don't have another real #9. Felipe didn't start his career as a real #9 and neither did Jaime Ayovi. They've learned to play this role throughout the years, but Mina is a real #9. Same with Juan Anangono and Marlon. The probelm is Marlon is injured unfortunately and Juan Anangono has recently moved to Chicago Fire and is in the process of adapting. Rueda is strict with these kind of situations. Mina isn't a stand out, but if you surround him with players who create danger and can put in good crosses for him he becomes a threat in the box despite his size. I'm not so bothered he made the list I just hope he can play well.
     
  4. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    My line up vs. Colombia: (Dominguez and Felipao suspended)

    4-5-1 that converts into a 4-3-2-1
    Banguera; Corozo, Achilier, Erazo, Ayovi; Noboa, Castillo, Saritama; Valencia, Montero; J. Ayovi

    vs. Bolivia, we'll have to see who's available to play. Ideally, I'd go with

    4-2-3-1
    Dominguez; Corozo, Achilier, Erazo, Ayovi; Noboa, Castillo; Valencia, Arroyo, Montero; Caicedo

    or a 4-4-2
    Dominguez; Corozo, Achilier, Erazo, Ayovi; Valencia, Noboa, Castillo, Montero; J. Ayovi, Caicedo
     
  5. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Although Mendez has a great ball passing and distribution. I think his time is up though and he shouldn't play a full game. I think there are other players do the same as Mendez and are in a better shape.

    Even if Mendez plays he leaves a huge hole for the team when playing a 4-4-2. The reason is because he doesn't recover the ball and is super slow. We use the two mids to help recover the ball and Benitez use to help distribute. Now without Benitez we are going to have two forwards like Ayovi and Caicedo. They don't help distribute the ball at all. So a mid like Mendez has to move up and help distribute now. That mean we have one less player recovering the ball in the mid. Specially since Mendez speed he cannot get back on time to help the defense. We are going to be weak in the mid with 4-4-2.

    The only way I want to see Mendez in the game would be a 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1. He would sit behind the load striker distributing the ball with two mid players behind him to help recover. I think Mendez should start if we go to the line up like this. Then at the second half he should be replaced by Arroyo (since Colon wasn't called up) or twitch to a 4-4-2 with an extra stricker if we need to score.

    Right now I think we are in big trouble. Our defense is so bad! It's one of the worse I've seen. Not because we don't have players but because they aren't performing good or are injured. Erazo has been really bad at Barcelona and so has Paredes. Ayovi is the only one doing well but he doesn't even play LB at his team in MX sometimes. Guagua? Is there more to say? I feel like throwing up every time I think about him starting. Achilier is average at best but he is the most consistent CB. As for Corozo is awesome he was called up but I really doubt he plays at all. Ugh this is gonna be tough to watch.

    So sad IMO to see how a team can fall so badly so quickly. It hurts specially because there are players that deserve being called up ahead of the current players. Too bad its too late for them at this time because the WCQ is so far ahead to try new people, which I understand.
     
  6. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    #6 b9d23m89, Aug 26, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
    Rueda isn't going to go to Colombia with a 4-4-2. I can almost guarantee you that. The only time Rueda would put 2 players up front in an away game was when we had Benitez. There's not a single player that can play a role like Benitez did, therefore 2 players up front will not happen again in an away match (unless it's vs. Bolivia, where we most likely will go back to a 4-4-2). Just like Vizuete said the other day, Ecuador has the players to play with 3 attacking volantes and 2 in the center doing the recovering.

    Against Colombia we will most likely see a 4-5-1, with not 2, but 3 center mids. So Mendez fits into the picture. I doubt he'll start and i don't think he should either. But coming off the bench Mendez can be a very important player.

    I agree with you on the defense. There's good young defenders in the country that are playing well enough to be a part of this list (not necessarily start), and could be included. Andres Mendoza (U. Catolica), Luis Caicedo (Indep. Del Valle), Mario Pineida (Indep. Del Valle). But it seems like Rueda isn't too fond of Independiente.
     
  7. viagoal

    viagoal Member

    Jan 5, 2005
    I know these line ups won't happen because they're more offensive than defensive

    vs. Colombia:
    Banguera;
    Paredes, Achilier, Erazo, Ayovi;
    Noboa, Mendez,
    Valencia, Montero;
    Guerron, Mina

    vs. Bolivia
    Dominguez;
    Paredes, Achilier, Erazo, Ayovi;
    Valencia, Noboa, Castillo, Montero;
    Renato, Felipao
     
  8. cristian1mv

    cristian1mv Member

    Jul 6, 2005
    I think your exaggerating. The list of players he called up isn't as bad you are making it seem. As far as defense, Ecuador has not real options that would be tremendous upgrades. You may have a point with Enner Valencia but it isn't a decision that will kill the team or its results. I'm glad he actually called up Guerron. That is huge and I was very surprised.

    (the mendez callup is mainly due to the extreme circumstances the FEF just went through. I think it is important for the coach to have a veteran on the team. and not a bad call up at all)


     
    lav92 repped this.
  9. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    it's clear Ener Valencia is just having one of his highlight moments he has every season before the off switch turns on and he ends up back in the bench. He scored against yesterday in Copa Sudamericana. I think he netted 2, but I couldn't tell if one of them was an assist or a goal. Either way, we may not be happy with him on the NT over other players we consider better but truth is Reinaldo wants to take advantage of his moment. By the end of the season we'll see if Ener even starts in Emelec, most likely he won't be. He's so inconsistent.
     
  10. Lucho Gutierrez

    May 29, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    So who are the suspended players for the Colombia game? I know Caicedo is one but I was wondering if there were any others. Also, is Erazo playing? I'm mostly worried about the defense, in terms of our offense we look great having Guerron and Renato Ibarra and co., but for defense I'm just hoping Guagua doesn't play, the split second he ********s up in a match can alter the result completely of the game, we saw what happened vs Peru and Spain. Both those games Ecuador were attacking first and then boom, Peru gets the ball in the box for a split second Guagua ********s up it's a goal. I would actually like the defense to be like this: Paredes-Erazo-Bagui-Ayovi or Paredes_Achilier-Bagui_Ayovi. WHat are your thoughts? And I'm 50% sure for some reason that Valencia will be out for the Bolivia match due to yellow cards..
     
  11. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Hey guys! I was looking at the list for the game and I was surprised that Montero is not playing no more in Betis , what happened?
    Any unknown interesting player that was called for this game ?
    Good luck for next game
     
  12. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    where have you been? Montero has been tearing it up in the Mexi league now for a while. Likely to young and inexperienced when in Spain but he'll be back in Europe if he keeps up his pace and if Ecuador make it thru to the WC.
     
  13. elviejomen

    elviejomen Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Hasbrouck Heights NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    as you can see Mexican League is not one of my priorities lol, the few games i saw him in Spain he was really good, i guess he is much better now
     
  14. Argentine Futbol

    Argentine Futbol Red Card

    Feb 21, 2003
    Old Greenwich, CT
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Of course he's better Now! He went from arguably the 1st or second best league in the World down to the 13 or 14th.
     
  15. Argentine Futbol

    Argentine Futbol Red Card

    Feb 21, 2003
    Old Greenwich, CT
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If Ecuador doesn't get 3 points from Bolivia. I see a world of hurt. Chile will get 3 points from Venezuela
     
  16. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Pedro Larrea from Liga de Loja has been called up. My guess is to replace Quiñonez since he might be injured. What do you guys think? I really never noticed him much but I know be is good at getting the ball back. I still want Martinez in the NT! I don't get what else he has to do. He has scored more than anyone and in a tougher league, plus internationally. Ugh!
     
  17. viagoal

    viagoal Member

    Jan 5, 2005
    Pedro Larrea recovers the ball well, is a smart defender as well as a good assist man. I'd use him as a substitute for Mendez in the 2nd half.
     
  18. Argentine Futbol

    Argentine Futbol Red Card

    Feb 21, 2003
    Old Greenwich, CT
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    That kid had everything to become a beast of a player. have no idea why Liga Got rid of him. he can easily play in Mexico and from time to time scores some amazing goals.
     
  19. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    #19 b9d23m89, Sep 1, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
    I was arguing about this the other day and talking w/ some fellow liguistas about how Larrea should return to LDUQ. Bauza was a complete dumbass for ever letting Pedro Larrea go. That kid commits some dumb fouls from time to time, but he definitely falls under the category of a player that "suda la camiseta 100%". Good call by Rueda because we might lose some players in the defensive mid area due to card accumulation and Larrea does that really well. He's got a hard working attitude which is always a plus. I feel like Rueda made a good addition by including Larrea. It sucks that Larrea never attracted another big team in the country after he left Liga and then Barcelona. Definitely cannot argue this one with Rueda though. Good call.

    Larrea is a perfect player to have when it comes to marking, recovery, and pressuring the opponent. If we start with 3 center mids (Noboa, Castillo, Saritama) vs. Colombia then Larrea could sub any of these guys really well at the end of a game to secure a result (if we are tying or winning).

    If anything, Liga should look into including him back in the squad for next year. Screw a Fernando Hidalgo and Saritama, i'll take Pedro Larrea any day...especially since Vera will most likely be leaving after this season. We need a pitbull in the mid.
     
  20. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Yeah I rather have him than Saritama but specially Hidalgo. That dude is terrible! Lol. I can't believe he keeps starting for Liga.
     
  21. Manolo

    Manolo Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 14, 1997
    Queens, NY
    It's so strange...2 months ago we had a DEFINED starting XI that would probably have been the same to start in Brazil 2014 (assuming we qualify). Now after a TERRIBLE SUMMER that leaves me in no doubt that this team is cursed, I'm at a loss to determine what our starting lineup or formation will be.

    I would like for Rueda to consider a couple changes, including:

    - Trying Valencia instead of Paredes at RB, and giving Ibarra a start on the right wing.
    - Using Guerron in Chucho's position, behind the main striker.

    Here's my lineups:

    Banguera/Dominguez
    Valencia - Erazo - Achilier - Ayovi
    Ibarra/Mendez - Noboa - Castillo - Montero
    Guerron/Arroyo - Yoya/Felipao
     
  22. The Machine

    The Machine Member

    Oct 19, 2009
    Newark
    Club:
    Emelec Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    ^^^
    I respect your opinion but Valencia is not a RB. He's played there at times with Man U and he has had a few decent performances, most notably when he came on as a substitute against Chelsea but when you look at his performances as a whole, he's been for the most part below average, if not mediocre. He defends well for his position but if you play him for an extended period of time at RB or any other position then his flaws will inevitably display themselves.

    That being said, I understand where you are coming from. Paredes has been awful at BSC and his performances with the NT in recent games have been subpar. With Valencia's talent, he might just perform better than Paredes. The issue here is that Paredes should not have called up. Maybe not calling him up would have served as the cold shower he needed to wake up and get his act together. One name that comes to mind is Mario Pineida. Very easily the best RB playing in Ecuador right now. He offers a decent balance in terms of attacking and defending.
     
  23. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I agree with you on your comment about Valencia's flaws being visible when he is playing as a right back for extended periods. I actually don't find Valencia much better than Paredes as a right back. He's ok, but his flaws are definitely seen. I don't agree with the fact that Paredes shouldn't be called up. That's a definite no. One thing we can't do now is break what we've been building. Although we may think Paredes may see it as a wake up call, the play himself may feel like Rueda has lost trust in him and also you gotta take into consideration that his teammates feel comfortable when he is there opposed to when he's not. We have been successful most of this Qualifier with Paredes on the squad....most of the games with him as a starter. I do agree with you that he should probably not start b/c his performances this season have been dreadful. The problem I've been seeing is that Rueda hasn't called up a substitute right back (besides Corozo who can play that position) in the last 4-5 games of this Qualifier which is a bit worrying to me....and it's kind of why we are facing this trouble now. I agree with you that Mario Pineida should be part of the squad for the NT. He deserves it b/c of the great season he's had. It will also be good to make Paredes feel like he has competition. But I have a feeling Rueda isn't too fond of Independiente b/c they aren't a BIG team. It also seems like Rueda doesn't like to take those type of risks (like starting a new player into the starting 11 w/o any NT experience). But sometimes those risk aren't too bad. I think with Achilier, Erazo, and Ayovi by his side as well as Valencia playing in front of him, Pineida could have been a great option- that's a lot of experienced players supporting him. Let's remember, Antonio was a young 18 year old once w/ no experience in Qualifiers and he had a game to remember.

    IMO, Corozo should not be overlooked. I'm sure he's challenging Paredes right now during training. Hopefully THAT motivates Paredes to wake up b/c if Corozo is healthy, he'll be there to stay on the NT and will be next to claim a starting spot either when Walter Ayovi has no more gas in the tank or in times like these when Paredes is slacking.
     
  24. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    #24 b9d23m89, Sep 4, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
    http://www.ecuagol.com/ecuagol/index.php?n=40881

    ^ there are the two line ups Rueda used before leaving to Colombia today. Both of them are said to be a 4-2-3-1 which is the formation i've been mentioning for a few weeks as the most ideal given the type of players we have and how we should play vs. Colombia. The key player in this line up is Mendez. It's a bit unknown how Rueda is going to use him. Closer to Castillo and Noboa working on recovering? or closer to/behind Guerron with Valencia and Montero directly across from him? Either way, Mendez is going to play a big part on getting the plays started once we gain possession. He's most likely going to be that guy who will get marked heavily when we have the ball so that our possession, passing, and creativity is minimized in the middle and all connection is cut.

    So far it seems like Banguera; Paredes, Achilier, Erazo, Ayovi; Castillo, Mendez, Noboa; Valencia, ____; ____ are the players who are going to start.

    Right now I feel like Rueda is debating between Michael Arroyo or Montero and Jaime Ayovi and Guerron...each for different reasons. Arroyo is used to playing in this climate since he plays in BSC and I feel like his style of playing allows him to move around more freely. And that could be a plus when he associates himself on the field with Mendez. I personally prefer Montero b/c he's faster, better at marking, pressuring, and he's going through a great moment right now in his career. As far as Guerron and Yoya I think Rueda it's a close call. Rueda has lots of faith in Yoya and I think he's the right player to start this game, but Guerron is another guy who's been performing well at his club and is in better shape as opposed to Ayovi who has only been back in activity for a month after his long injury. But it will be interesting to see how Colombia handles Guerron. Our counter attacks will be extremely fast is Valencia-Montero and Guerron are on the attack. Talk about straight speed! That will keep the colombian defense on alert...his presence alone will have them on the look out. With Yoya up front, it's more comforting to them because as long as he doesn't have the ball, he's no threat. But w/ a cross from Antonio or Montero or a smart pass from Mendez, Ayovi becomes dangerous.

    I would have started the game w/ Saritama and ended w/ Mendez but we'll see what happens. My vote for the empty spots go to Montero and Yoya.

    2nd half most likely Saritama for Mendez depending on how Mendez is doing; Ibarra for Paredes and then I'd possibly move Antonio back in Paredes' position; finally if we are winning/tying i'd go for Pedro Quinonez for Yoya in the last 5-10 minutes and play without a striker....if we are losing i'd get Guerron in the game ASAP by the 60-65 minutes no later than that.
     
  25. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Man, I am nervous about this game. If we can manage to win, it would be so awesome! Even a tie would be great! At the same time I know that its really almost impossible to beat them at their home. Colombia on paper is MILES ahead of Ecuador in terms of player talent. They have so many of their players in great leagues playing every week. While our players are stuck in Mexico, China, and Middle East!

    Also that defense is so weak! No matter who starts for Colombia at front, they are probably extremely happy to know they are going up against our defense.

    A positive I see is that Rueda is trying a 4-2-3-1 in practice! It will be great to see this happen tomorrow against Colombia.

    All in all I wish the NT luck. I hope we can make it out with a tie but I want to win it. I want Ecuador to make history tomorrow. Go Ecuador!
     

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