Economic Hiccup Approaching

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Chicago1871, Nov 19, 2004.

  1. dreamer

    dreamer Member

    Aug 4, 2004

    Greenspan is a politician first, an economist second.

    Greenspan's raising interest rates unnecesarily stalled the economy and got rid of Bush I. And recently, he left the interest rates alone far too long and then only raised it in baby steps before this election, despite a fast weakening dollar and mounting inflation pressure. This was the result of a deal with Bush II who reappointed him by overlooking his grave mistakes during the inflating and then busting of the internet bubble.

    But Greenspan has the full backing of the media so he's been made into this iconic figure the unsuspecting mass so acquainted to. But in fact, his overly accommodating policies led to people borrowing huge amount of money at virtually no cost to buy up AMZN etc that started the internet bubble and subsequently his unnecessarily tight and abrupt policies threw the bubble into a bust.

    But the media will be tightlipped about his mistakes and will only play up his achievements, which granted are plenty, as it's only natural for someone who has made so many grave mistakes. But people have short memory. So don't be surprised, in ten years, with the help of the media, Greenspan will be known as the greatest economist ever, right up there with Adam Smith.
     
  2. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Way to go "professor". My God you have such knowledge, we are priveleged to feel your presence

    I know he's the head of the Federal Reserve dipsh!t. As someone who determines interest rates, do you think he's a chief economist or not? No-wait-just sh****

    Why don't you go find someone else to flame. And this is off topic but thank god your boring bunker ball team lost nobody likes to snore through soccer games.
     
  3. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    Greenspan's power can only go so far. Fundamentally our culture is screwing us over, not our chief economists. The typical American nowadays, expects services out of our government but for less money, hates to see job losses but buys a foreign car, and then wants an efficient government but votes irrationally with their heart for an overzealous president.

    In short, we get the economy that we deserve. Especially to all you fvckers driving foreign cars. I know your Camry runs nice and your wife's Jetta is cute, but as soon as you buy an automobile that is un-American you lose your right to bitch about jobs or income inequality in the United States.
     
  4. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    I'd rather he just go away. I'm out of this thread my staying in it will obviously ruin it now. Thanks for the conversation.
     
  5. dreamer

    dreamer Member

    Aug 4, 2004

    I'm surprise he hasn't neg-repped you. That's his specialty. Give him time.
     
  6. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    As an American worker, I expect to be paid to post on a message board.

    Do you know where your car and all its parts are made or assembled?
     
  7. stopper4

    stopper4 Member

    Jan 24, 2000
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know Camrys are made in Michigan now, right?

    When did American companies recieve the inalienable right to make crappy cars and charge too much for them?
     
  8. stopper4

    stopper4 Member

    Jan 24, 2000
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You really are a trip. Quite possibly my favorite poster of the day. Coming in here with gems like:

    But with the chutzpah to suggest firing Greenspan because he can't break down topics like international finance, capital markets and other macroeconomic issues down to bite-site chunks for you..........


    You may not like his answer. But that's honesty.
     
  9. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    My Taurus was built in Hapeville, Georgia with a domestic content in the mid 90's.

    No, Camrys are assembled in Georgetown, Kentucky

    You know "assembled" does not equate to "made," right?

    And yes, cars of foreign companies can add value to our economy. However foreign auto-makers in the short term have less invested in the United States than the Big 2 1/2. So when you lay down your $25k on a shiny new car your choice directly impacts the job security of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. Not only employees of the automaker itself, but those of suppliers, transportation, service etc.

    Should Bubba on the line get laid off cause you think buying a Camry with a domestic content in the low 70's is good enough, fine. But since you made your decision that helps lead to his unemployment, you lose your right to bitch about income inequality and job loss.
     
  10. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    Also, let us not forget about the import barriers that are in place in Japan and Korea. We are playing on slanted playing field that is unlikely to change exogenously. Our best bet is to change our buying behavior that favors domestic products first and products of open-trade nations.
     
  11. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    I wanted to stay out of this thread because of the flamer but couldn't help it........

    He needs to break things down holmes. The economy's going in the tank, and it would be nice to have a Fed Reserve Chairman who can speak in plain English to help us figure out why the economy's doing so poorly and what we can do about it.

    The guy talks to Congress, I watched on C-Span (which is why I'm chiming in), and they'd like to hear English and not nonsense as well so they can figure out what to do. They kept asking him to put things plainly.

    And by the way I agree w/Danks81 it's important to have American-made and OWNED products selling not just here in the US, but around the world. We're losing our manufacturing base at a huge rate. Look at the Chrysler bailout-look at the jobs we still have as a result.
     
  12. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    Question: Is that Toyota made in Kentucky more or less American than that Ford made in Mexico or South Korea?

    Don't answer that here. Answer it here.
     
  13. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And with the dollar tanking against the euro and the yen, it's going to make American products much more attractive from a pricing perspective. I was planning on buying a German car (via the European Delivery program for WC 2006, naturally) but the prices are going up so much that it's much less likely now.
     
  14. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Visteon, a Ford spin-off and Ford's major supplier, is one of the largest employers in Mexico. Here's what it is doing with US jobs:

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041115/visteon_buyouts_2.html

    The myth of the American car simultaneously was invented and disappeared when Iacocco put Mitsubishi engines in his Chryslers then went crying to Congress about Japanese protectionism. "Buy American" is a joke.
     
  15. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    And yourself?
     
  16. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    Now is this the fault of Visteon or a product of skyrocketing health care costs working in concert with people who view "'Buy American' (as) a joke"?


    I never said that American manufacturers do not deserve some blame in regards to our economy. But the simple fact remains that if people continue to choose imports over domestic products, our economy will suffer in the long run.

    As far as the Mitsubishi engines go, Chrysler as most of the U.S. automakers in the 1980's, could not build an efficient V-6. This has changed and your "example" is inaccurate.

    Also, do you forget that in the 1990's Chrysler was the most profitable and stable of the U.S. automakers? Care to complain further about what happened with Iacocca?
     
  17. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    This just in. Alan Greenspan has said the Visteon workers accepting buyouts:

    "I realize it's very disconcerting, and I have no idea what job you should train for, but in the long run this is a good thing"

    :D
     
  18. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    One Toyota - no idea where it was built. One crap Mercury Villager, identical to a Nissan Quest and with a Nissan engine - no idea where it was built.

    Why would I be loyal to one multi-national corporation over another? Is Volvo Swedish?
     
  19. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Technicaly.
     
  20. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Electronics, steel, textiles, vegetables, autos, toys, computers, telecom equipment, lumber, oil, natural resources and products of all shapes and sizes, etc. etc. Globalization is unstoppable.

    My only point with "Buy American" being a joke is that the line was born in a corporate boardroom.
     
  21. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    And remember, that crap minivan was a Japanese minivan, rebranded as an American product. The myth that the Japanese do not have flaws in their vehicles is just that, a myth.


    Because maybe you might be enlightened enough to understand that some multi-national corporations' routine behavior better serves you and your fellow American citizens. Patronizing them increases the welfare of your fellow Americans more so than patronizing a foreign corporation.

    And yes, Volvo is a Swedish company, owned by Ford.
     
  22. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    I understand you points. But overlooking the consequences of our nation's buying behavior and how it affects our trade deficit and our economy is merely keeping our head in the sand.
     
  23. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    I won't hate you, but I think it's a shame that you bought Korean. They come from a domestic market where over 95% of the automobiles sold are Korean. And no it's not because Korean cars are better than others (cause clearly they are not). It's because of a culture that prides itself in buying domestic goods in addition to stiff trade barriers.

    Let us not forget the disadvantage that the U.S. automakers face in dealing with retirement and health care costs. They're locked into contracts that add a minimum additional cost of $1000 per vehicle. And that's a mostly fixed cost. So the fewer American cars sold, the bleaker the health care and retirement futures of American automotive workers look.

    But they could just fall back on our welfare state, right?
     
  24. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    I know you aren't, but this looks like a proposal to turn good labor union jobs into low-paying jobs with no health benefits. How does this help Americans?

    The problem is unsolvable and automation and export of manufacturing jobs abroad irreversible. I don't have any answers for that, but I do know that America is in a better position than most any other country, save Switzerland. The only thing I am really certain about is that we shouldn't be pissing our currency away on pointless wars and irresponsible budgetary policy because a strong USD helps keep us strong.
     
  25. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Re: Excuse me while I call this shot

    10 bucks...not Euros... says you're sooooo wrong.

    Right here, right now.
     

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