all religion or most religion or some specific religion? i need to justify asking for the reason you hold a particular view?
There are some very peaceful religions that I can respect, that are totally against war. So I think all. I'm thinking mostly the Judeo-Christian ones, and Islam. And can I ask you ask the question conversely?
i know this isn't a perfect analogy, but if i see you walking across the street and i see a car coming and call out to you, i'm trying to prevent something bad happening to you. if you owe me $10, that's one thing, but if you owe me $1000, i might be accused of only trying to protect my pocketbook. i have very little to gain personally if Christopher Hitchens decides that God loves him and he wants to be part of God's family. i guess i would get to talk to Hitchens in heaven, and that would be a rare treat, but any attitude i hold about him -- the fact that he is obdurately anti-God, for example -- is tempered with the awareness i have that he is likely to suffer more outside "the heavenly gates" (if you believe in that sort of thing) than inside them. it's no feather in my cap if Christopher Hitchens changes his mind. on the other hand, if there is a God and all that is said about him (the positive stuff) is true, Hitchens' conversion would tend to make God look good, but i can't see how it would serve any personal aim i have, except aims i have that are aligned with God's aims, and in those cases, i've subjugated mine to his.
Terrible analogy I think. So converting someone to your religion is a perfect way to prevent something bad happening? Oh so being atheist is a bad thing like getting hit by a car? That's an awful analogy, and one you should never use again. Wow, that's vindictive. And as far as I'm concerned, you can't prove any sort of it. "God's family?" Just like those people who say i should give up my "life of sin" and should "repent". Right. I've heard that a thousand times before. And on a serious note, he knows there is nothing after so he's trying to make the most of his life before he's worm food. Glad to see the man likes his booze. Then keep those aims to yourself. Atheists can be good people.
I've answered it. I love it how when I answer a question that I've been asked by a religious person... I get accused of avoiding it. That's just weak.
nah! you said that there would be less war and conflict. that's an opinion unsupported by fact. if you can't present any facts, just say so. it's OK to have completely unsupported opinions. you're in good company.
Oh boy, this reeks of a bit of inconsistency. As if your opinions are supported by facts. It's fact that religion does fuel conflict particularly in the middle east. Also Bush said he was on a mission from god when launching the war in Iraq. And my opinions are not unsupported. I'm atheist and I believe in facts. Something that is unknown to you.
The Bible is Fact! why? Because the Bible said so!. So does the Koran, so I guess both of the books are facts BTW, Stilton , is cool you all want to pray for Christopher if you want. But to increase the odds, also pray to Zeus, Arom-Ra and others, It is better to hedge your bets IMO!
It's not self serving. Based on their beliefs, the people who are praying for him are doing him a kindness. And if you don't believe as they do, you can politely acknowledge the kindness, or at worst ignore it. And btw I don't think anybody is praying for him to go to hell. That is Hitchens grandstanding when he says that. They think as an atheist he's going to hell already, so why would they pray for that?
Um many are praying in the hope that he changes to their side... that's self serving in my view. At worst ignore it? Or perhaps criticize it?
They are not praying for him to switch sides. They are praying for his soul to be delivered from eternal torment and into eternal bliss. I don't think you understand the premises behind the traditional Christian doctrine. Criticize their beliefs, if it makes you feel good. But it doesn't change the fact that when they take the time to pray for him, based on their belief, it is an act of kindness.
Um, not from what I saw in the article. And for one, I've studied the bible before, and I come from a Catholic family... so I think I do understand behind it. It's a baseless doctrine. It's not an act of kindness. Sometimes it's done out of scorn and personal gain. Look, I'm not claiming all are like that. But no doubt some do pray for others out of other reasons other than kindness. Like when they say they will pray for me and tell me that I should living a "life of sin"... I don't view those as acts of kindness.
I get how you view it. I just don't think you understand how they view it. Look, I don't believe in hell. I think if we as beings survive past the death of our physical body -and I think it's likely- it's not based on how we live. It's not because of somebody judging how we behaved, and it's not based on what we believe. Either we all survive because it is our nature as human beings to exist beyond our physical body, or else we don't because it is not. That is what I believe. But I've heard of people praying for me. Friends, loved ones, family. I know my grandma -RIP- prayed for me every day. When I hear that somebody is praying for me to go to heaven and to be saved from hell, I am thankful to that person, the prayer uplifts me, because I realize that based on their own belief, they are thinking of me and doing me a kindness.
But I do understand the motives, and often they are not what you think they are. Look I understand that. And I am not trying to discredit those. But there are people who use prayer as for selfish reasons. There was a study a few years ago that actually concluded that prayer was not effective, and in fact could be harmful.. http://www.secularism.org.uk/prayernoteffectiveandcouldevenbe.html It was targeted for patients after heart surgery... Prayer also is of declining importance amongst younger people found in that study.
you cannot deny that the biggest, most out-spoken atheist of modern times suddenly finding religon on his death bed would not just be a benefit to his own soul (so they believe), but would also be a tremendous coup for christianity. so while not knowing their motives entirely, it is tough not to be a bit cynical about it.
Bah, the same thing happened here when a high-profile atheist found God near the end of his life. It didn't discredit anything. Are you saying that only believers are allowed to have a change of heart?
no need for God, or prayer I'm not surprised, as many people find religion in jail. One judge I know used to frequently state, "I know where to find Jesus. He's in the county jail, because so many defendants tell me they found him there!" Weren't the godless Nazis & the Communists responsible for more 20th century deaths than any religion or faith?
Re: no need for God, or prayer I will take the communist but not the 3rd Reich! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsNVxW2ufPw"]YouTube - Christoper Hitchens view on Catholic Hilter[/ame]
Re: no need for God, or prayer Hitler certainly said he was a Christian... but that's a different explosive topic.
I find it funny that Christians would view that as a major coup. Whatever keeps the circle-jerk going, I guess. But it's like thinking what Diego Maradona does in his last days outweighs what he did in his twenties.
no need for God, or prayer Presumably, you meant Hitler! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mit_brennender_Sorge You might as well call this man Russian Orthodox because he studied in a seminary: http://schools-wikipedia.org/images/844/84457.jpg
Re: no need for God, or prayer I watched the Berlinski Hitchens debate that the above clip is taken from: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-mS5nr-dU8"]YouTube - Debate: Does Atheism Poison Everything? Christopher Hitchens vs David Berlinski pt.1[/ame] Berlinski argues from ignorance and the god of the gaps as well as making the argument from morality. The funny thing though is that he admits that nothing compels him to be moral (after all he doesn't personally believe in God) but he thinks it's a key argument. Basically it was a debate between an intellectual snob who says "I don't believe in God but you had better, or else your world will go to hell" and an intellectual snob (and I mean that as a compliment to Hitchens) who says think for yourself.
I've asked others on this board the same question before, but could you please respond and define the term "fact" in your own words? I am quite interested. Thank you, sir.