Review: Dutch NT - WC 2014 preparation thread

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. It would be more akin to 'the battle of the Midget midfielders":D
     
  2. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Reus was just carried off in Armenia game. Twisted ankle. Looked serious
     
  3. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    First game vs. Spain is very crucial and we can't lose... I am quite okay with the most conservative line up which may well include both De Jong and De Guzman in front of the back four. Pack the midfield and hit on the counter. I think JDG will help breaking down Spain's flows and who knows he may get lucky with one of his long passes or set pieces.

    For Chile and Australia, I would love to see Sneijer drops back to an "8", put Robben in a free role behind Van Persie, and add another striking force. Lens would be my first choice, he can run behind the defense and he's pretty experienced. Huntelaar is too static. And Depay is a too naive.
     
  4. El Cid

    El Cid Member

    Jul 4, 2006
    DFW, Texas
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm flying flags though I may join a band of Dutch expats to watch the game. If Holland can pull of the win, I won't complain the rest of the tournament.

    I think the biggest thing is just getting the first goal. Spain is a confident, cohesive side and if you can put them back, you have a tremendous psychological advantage.
     
  5. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Fashion experts rate our kits as fifth best of the 32 teams in the WC. I'm not sure that I would put Croatia at number one, but at least we are above Spain and Brazil!
     
  6. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Out for the WC with torn ankle ligaments.
     
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  7. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I feel bad for Reus. But when Ozil came on yesterday in the 2nd half Germany scored 5 times and looked much better. So I dont think its huge loss for them
     
  8. nurvin

    nurvin Member

    Feb 11, 2011
    I would rate:
    1.Holland
    2.Argentina
    3.Croatia
    4.Korea
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I like Australia's kits!
     
  10. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Not sure how Greece's shirt rated so high. It looks like a golf shirt...
     
  11. RobinVanRobben

    May 1, 2014
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Sigh, I understand
     
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  12. Persona

    Persona Member

    Feb 24, 2014
    The backpack stripes are horrendous. I rate Australia's 3rd best, particularly their change kit, then Croatia. I also think the Ivorians have a fantastic set as well. The Dutch kit, as always, is the best of the bunch.
     
  13. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Against Spain we need to control the midfield. We saw in the second Ajax - Barcelona game that it can be done. We need to choke off their tiki taka with midfielders who can press AND control the ball. That means guys like Clasie, Blind, de Jong, and I have no doubt that Sneijder will also once again step up. I'm not convinced that JDG2 can dominate the midfield, however I am convinced that Fer can't. He might have the energy, but he doesn't have the skill needed to hold his own against Spain.
    We also need to come out the gate flying and score ASAP. And with our strike force, there's no reason we can't do that. We just need to be fast at moving the ball forward to RvP and Robben.
    We also need quick defenders who can read the game. And by quick, I don't mean fast, I mean quick to react. Vlaar is a player who will compromise the structure of the team because he can't press, and will have no idea what to do against Spain's attacking positional interchange. But regardless, I think Vlaar starting is a given. He won't play de Jong at the back, and he wont play Veltman over him either.

    I think something like:
    Cillessen
    Vlaar - De Vrij - BMI
    De Jong - Clasie
    Janmaat-------------Blind
    Sneijder
    Van Persie - Robben​
    Personally, I think Lens should play RM, but I think it'll be Janmaat
     
  14. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Francisco North Bay, Bel Marin Keys
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark

    Not always. That all-orange kit against France in March was very hard on the eyes.
     
  15. Persona

    Persona Member

    Feb 24, 2014
    Yeah, that kit wasn't pretty. But that was a combination the KNVB decided to throw together for the friendly. The regular 2014 kit has the white shorts as we all know. Their experiment failed :p
     
  16. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  17. Persona

    Persona Member

    Feb 24, 2014
    14%.....how can one be so poor in what basically amounts to luck? We're also not any better at 20.
     
  18. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think penalty's are a skill. Perform a close to perfect shot under immense pressure, without giving away too much of a read to the keeper. Why is that luck, rather than skill?

    Penalty's should be treated with care. We always run into them. Just recently with U17. Time and again they come back. It should be mastered from a young age on. I remember when I played football that we finished the game with penalty's by default. However once we moved to the D team and beyond this was scrapped. Nonsense. Also later on, kids and teenagers should finish games with penalty's. It's a skill that must be honed and treated with care.
     
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  19. Persona

    Persona Member

    Feb 24, 2014
    It's luck because if the keeper guesses right then more often than not it's a save(assuming it's not a perfectly placed shot in one of the upper corners, then yes, that is immense skill.) Players aren't signed for their penalty taking ability or penalty saving ability. It's a coin flip essentially.
     
  20. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You don't think there are certain cues in players body movement that telegraph their intentions?

    Van Nistelrooy said that a good penalty will be a goal despite the keeper guessing the right corner. If it is hard enough and placed in the upper or down corner, it is a goal.

    Imo that already starts with a proper run-up.

    I am wondering, you are basically saying that the difference between the 93% success rate of Germany and 67% succes rate from Netherlands can be fully explained by only 1 factor: Luck?

    Germans were more lucky? With bigger sample sizes, things will even out?
     
  21. El Cid

    El Cid Member

    Jul 4, 2006
    DFW, Texas
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This isn't the discussion that gives me great confidence going into the World Cup, but thanks.
     
  22. Persona

    Persona Member

    Feb 24, 2014
    You're now beginning to put words into my mouth to attempt to prove your point. I never said luck was the only one factor. I said it was essentially the main factor, then gave an example of a penalty technique that requires an immense amount of skill.

    Penalties are luck, skill, wits, weather. It's everything combined, I just feel as though luck outweighs the other components. Iker Casillias said penalties are nothing but luck, so there is the opposite end of the spectrum as well from someone who has been involved in a lot more penalties than Ruud.

    I could flip a coin 10 times and only 20% of the time it land on heads. You could flip that same coin 10 more times and it could land on head 80% of the time. There isn't much difference for penalties in the grand scheme of things. You run up, you kick the ball and hope the keeper guesses wrong based on the penalty charts they view before the kicks which shows the players "hot-zones."
     
  23. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Francisco North Bay, Bel Marin Keys
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    You're forgetting nerves.

    Probably about 5-10% of the time, players miss the goal entirely. (Baggio, Staam, Kluivert, Gyan, etc.) That's all nerves. You can say the discrepancy between the Dutch and Germans is mostly due to luck, but for whatever reason, while the Germans may have a few PKs saved by the opposing keeper, they never miss the goal. That is mental strength, which is as much or more a part of PK shootouts as anything else, including luck.
     
  24. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    As a fan of holland I will say my expectations are quite low for this WC. Not because the team is "bad" or untalented because they are far from that. But do to a number of factors (tough group, SA location, injuries, downward cyclical talent/fortunes of the NT). I disagree with you I believe Germany, Spain and yes even France is more talented then the Dutch. You can argue that even Italy has a cohesive unit is overall better. I see this team either bowing out in group stage or exiting in the round of 16. I hope I'm wrong but right now I see holland entering into a cyclical dark period pre 1988.
     
  25. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I was at the Spain/El Salvador match yesterday and they really did not look good at all. Villa scored two goals in the second half but they had difficulties breaking down the Salvador defense. Fabregas took the penalty kick when Costa was taken down in the box and missed the goal badly (luck or lack of skill, it's not clear;)). The weather wasn't an issue at all as it was quite pleasant and probably much nicer than it will be in Brazil. If they play this poorly next Friday I cannot see them scoring against the Dutch.
     

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