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Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by demeer, Mar 31, 2016.
I don't think you can compare Castaignos and Janssen. Janssen is far superior.
Why do you say this,jus because Janssen his top goal scorer this season.
Zeegelaar 2 assists as Sporting won união 2-0 cementing automatic CL football
Castaignos doesnt even compare to Janssen.
In fact Janssen might even decide to start running circles around Castaignos
OK let's don't forget about Luuk De Jong 2011-2012 season.was second (25 goals) behind Bas Dost (32) when he moved to Monchengladbach. The rest his history.
You have to give both of them a head start,I mean in any league but in a top half team then it would be possible to say for certain who is better. Eredivisie castaignos clearly was a more consistent striker than Janssen given his three season spell at Twente.
OK its this jus a rumor or inter has jus secured the deal for Anwar El Ghazi.
My understanding is that he and his family were in Milan. I've not seen any news that Ajax have agreed to any € figure for a transfer and don't even know what his value might be. el Ghazi is a half step too slow to play wing in any higher league and maybe his best position is as a striker (certainly this is my feeling). He hasn't learned when to take on a defender(s) and when to pass which is critical the higher up a player moves as defenders tend to be much quicker and aggressive than those found in the Eredivisie. If he goes, so be it but I think he needs at least two more seasons with Ajax to improve his game.
Strikkie erom en......
@wilson00 - you mention above that Castaignos was 'well above' Janssen, and that the stats prove that Castaignos was 'clearly was a more consistent striker' even after some hard luck..
This made me very curious so I took a good look at the stats and it sort of seems like the opposite is much more accurate:
Castaignos was noticed early, great at the U17 level (13 goals in 18), good in the U19 level (8 goals in 17) and after a decent first season in the Feyenoord 1st team (15 goals in 37) went off to Inter. Ended up getting 6 goals in 15 matches for the U21s as well, but has never got a senior call.
Had an awful time at Inter, as it seems you know already, just 1 goal in only 8.. not to mention the spitting incident - which IMO to see this from a 19 year old is more like a poisonous-player highlighter than a bit of hard luck.
When LC was 20, he came back to the Eredivisie, played 48 matches for Twente scoring 14 goals and getting 6 assists. Since then, 2 more seasons in holland, getting 14 goals in both 13/14 and 14/15, before signing for Frankfurt. There, he has not been great (besides 2 really good back-to-back games early on), lost his preference as striker before his ligament injury, and again has not done much since coming back 6 matches ago. As a matter of fact, he is sitting on the bench as I type..
Sort of an anti-climactic career trend happening..
Janssen has not so much experience or stats to compare with but the ones he has got seem to be superior... Sort of ignored as a youngster, esp compared to Castaignos, never playing for U17s or U19s and was then released by the Feyenoord academy only to earn his way to the eredivisie with AZ and scoring loads for U21s (8 goals in 10). Besides already earning a convincing callup to the senior side, scoring and getting an assist in his first start and v England non-the-less, VJ has 30 goals now and 7 assists in his 47 matches.
More than double what LC had at the same age, and also in just his first season a tally LC has not yet achieved (plus 2 more matches to play).
For the record, I would love for both of them to be scoring loads of goals!
So anyways, what stats were you looking at?
Why do you prefer Castaignos to Janssen?
Even if Castaignos had superior stats, I'd still go for Janssen for the NT. Only Janssen and Luuk de Jong can hold up the ball to some degree and are a threat in the box. Castaignos is for me a pure counterattacking striker with pace and clever movement and therefor not so useful for the NT assuming Blind and his successor will play some version of an attacking 4-3-3.
I think I was quiet clear above on what will be the best possible way to identify who is a better striker.
Also something to note here it would be useless to compare the stats for both Castaignos and Janssen here simply because eredivisie keeps losing its grit every year and if you compare castaignos time at twente and Janssen now at AZ , there is huge gap in terms of how player transfer has left eredivisie barren with with the competition level dropping drastically every year with only PSV, Feyenoord and Ajax being able to bolster their squad due to Financial advantage.
As for Luc Castaignos being consistent, I was also qiuet clear on his three season spells at Twente only simply because he made his debut for feyenoord at the age of 18. even from your stats its ever clear Castaignos had an average of 10 goals per season while at Twente which is quiet consistent given the player transfers they had leading to successive seasons. Tadic, Fer Promes Chadli etc. . As for Janssen , though it looks good on paper ,scoring 25 goals in his first season is kind of arguable being consistent given prior to this he was at Almere city in eerste divisie and given the current status of eredivisie..
also remember Janssens raise has come at time when both RVP and Huntelaar are on the verge of major decline . they rivalry had often made it impossible for other strikers to get the nod over them and both Dost and Castaignos were victims of this when they were in ereivisie..
Useless to compare their stats?? But you were the one to compare them, and it was you who said the stats proved Castaignos was well above Janssen, not me haha
So then I looked up the stats and see Castaignos' best season was less than half as good as Janssens first/only season!
So if you think Castaignos is consistent over 3 seasons at Twente, then he is consistently terribly average and the bar is set pretty low for Janssen, or any other Dutch striker in that case!
Let's see how VJ does over 2 more seasons then. I wonder if he will have nice #10s like Sneijder and Ziyech behind him too
By the way, Janssen has 30 goals now if we incl euro and cup, as I did for Castaignos best season stat-wise, not 25.
Although Castaignos has never scored 25 goals either..
first thing first can you quote where I said "stats proved Castaignos was well above Janssen"
secondly I will repeat what I mentioned earlier "Also something to note here it would be useless to compare the stats for both Castaignos and Janssen here simply because eredivisie keeps losing its grit every year and if you compare castaignos time at twente and Janssen now at AZ , there is huge gap in terms of how player transfer has left eredivisie barren with with the competition level dropping drastically low every year with only PSV, Feyenoord and Ajax being able to bolster their squad due to Financial advantage" I hope you are getting what im trying to point out here. so you can well expect Janssen to come up with more goals next season as more players depart eredivisie and provided if he stays in eredivisie.
also it was bit unfortunate that Twente were forced to sell Castaignos to compensate for their financial woes other ways this debate could have been more fruitful.
I know mate, you said all of those things, just not in the one sentence.
And yes, of course I understand your point that the eredivisie must currently be less than half as good in quality as it was in the last three seasons, since Janssen has scored double the amount that Castaignos ever did in there.
more misery for kishna. Im really starting to think he will end up like afellay..
We are not careful enough about the progress of this Zegelaar . He managed to get a place at Sporting , good Portuguese team in a tougher league than the Eredivisie . He too deserves to be tested .
I believe CDPontaDelgada introduced him to us in the Dutch players at home and abroad worthy to be tracked in connection with the Dutch NT - Part 4 thread. I agree that it is worth to call him up and see what he can do.
With attackers mean and dirty to the core, so if he's capable handling those I guess he should be given a try.
Isnot it time to mailthe KNVB to appoint this forum as a must read for the technical staff?
He rejected the Suriname team already wants to play for the oranje
Zeegelar - LW
van annholt - LB
Fosu-Mensah is in the preliminary squad for the upcoming friendlies!!!!! Anita comes back in the mix as well. I don't know why Dijks is not on the list as he's clearly better than Pieters IMO.
Patrick van Aanholt (Sunderland), Vurnon Anita (Newcastle United), Riechedly Bazoer (Ajax), Daley Blind (Manchester United), Jeffrey Bruma (PSV), Jasper Cillessen (Ajax), Jordy Clasie (Southampton), Memphis Depay (Manchester United), Virgil van Dijk (Southampton), Bas Dost (VfL Wolfsburg), Timothy Fosu-Mensah (Manchester United), Marco van Ginkel (PSV), Vincent Janssen (AZ), Luuk de Jong (PSV), Rick Karsdorp (Feyenoord), Timo Letschert (FC Utrecht), Jürgen Locadia (PSV), Luciano Narsingh (PSV), Erik Pieters (Stoke City), Quincy Promes (Spartak Moskou), Davy Pröpper (PSV), Bart Ramselaar (FC Utrecht), Karim Rekik (Olympique Marseille), Kenny Tete (Ajax), Joël Veltman (Ajax), Kenneth Vermeer (Feyenoord), Tonny Vilhena (Feyenoord), Ron Vlaar (AZ), Georginio Wijnaldum (Newcastle United), Jetro Willems (PSV) en Jeroen Zoet (PSV).
Resting for summer or not, Robben, Huntelaar, Sneijder and van Persie were not called up. Maybe 1 or 2 of them will be called up next time for qualification but to me, this signifies a new chapter/beginning.
Good to see Vilhena earning his call up. Good to see Fosu-Mensah is called up. Who is this 19 year old Bart Ramselaar (FC Utrecht)? At least Blind is showing some good sign with his selection. I just hope players like Vilhena, Fosu-Mensah, Bazoer, PvA, Anita, Karsdorp, Janssen, Tete get decent minutes of playing time rather than sitting on the bench. These friendlies are time to test our young players.
Finally, Danny Blind has made good decisions . Hallelujah . Frankly, Sneijder , Huntelaar and Van Persie , with all due respect I have for them, are not solutions for the future. Even if there is not better than them , it's time that you get used to these young players to take responsibility. Very glad to see Ramselaar , I said it a few months ago that he was the real deal . I regret the absence of De Roon and Zegelaar . They could be tested.
On the other hand , Rekik has no place in this list. He is catastrophic in Marseille. He is the scapegoat of the French media . Hoedt seems to be a more logical option.