Duke-Virginia (r)

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Sandon Mibut, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    According to the LiveStats on the Duke men's soccer webpage, it's 1-1 in the 42nd minute in Durham.

    LiveStats, which I wish every team used during games, says Chris Loftus scored for Duke with an assist to Owoicho Adogwa while Drew Harrison scored for Virginia off a Mike Littlefield assist.

    No idea who scored first.
  2. NJGUY

    NJGUY New Member

    Sep 23, 2002
    Virginia scored 1st 3mins then Duke 23mins.First Half Plays has like a match tracker.
  3. terp fan

    terp fan New Member

    Nov 21, 2000

    Duke wins 3-1 and puts UVA in danger of missing NCAA Tournament at 7-6 with four games to go in the regular season.
  4. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002
    Duke wins 3-1. I didn't see the last goal. UVA scored early on a pretty goal by Harrison. Not sure who got the assist...number 7 I believe. Ball was sent in from the right flank, Harrison with a nice chest trap, and a nice hit from 21 yards inside the far post.

    Duke tied on a goal by Loftus after a UVA midfielder who dribbled way too much lost possession in his own third. Nice hit by Loftus from just inside the 18.

    Duke went up 2-1 early second half as I was leaving the field.

    This game was a total hackfest. Ugly to watch.

    FIXXXER New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    Hotlanta, GA
    What a crazy ACC season so far. Should make for an exciting end to the season and ACC tournament.

    Can anyone explain Duke?
  6. k1v1n

    k1v1n New Member

    May 4, 2002
    The last goal was a header by Blake Camp on a corner taken by Jordan Cila. Two of Duke's goal were from headers.

    It was definitely a hack fest. Ugly! The first UVA goal was the highlight of the game. Very pretty! After that it was all downhill. Duke definitely had the better of the play. They've scored three goals in each of their last two games. They are nowhere near as bad as their record would indicate. This team is capable of surprising some teams. Fixxer is right, this is going to be an extremely interesting ACC tourney.
  7. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002
    Once again, Big Game George comes through. I guess since they honored Rennie at halftime for his 25 years of "service" to Duke, it was poetic justice for him to win tonight.

    This game was proof that much of college soccer is nothing more than constant hacking, incessent dribbling, and long balls. Good thing I get to watch my kid's U-16 game tomorrow where they can actually string together 3 or 4 passes without some player coming off the field with a bloody nose.
  8. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    There's no easy way to put this - this is the worst Virginia team in over 20 years.

    Down seasons are bound to happen but this is terrible. Big Game George is lucky that Arena still is highly regarded by the athletic administration at UVa and that Arena sees Gelnovatch as another son.

    Eight years ago Gelnovatch was handed the keys to program at the top college soccer and he has mismanaged and bungled it into an also ran despite having more advantages than virtuously any other program in college ball.

    The sad thing is that he gets rewarded by Arena with roles with the nationa teams even though he hasn't earned them through his performance as Virginia's coach.
  9. SouthernSoccerScene

    SouthernSoccerScene New Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    This was a pretty sloppy game that went end to end most of the way. Good teams are supposed to find ways to win these kinds of games, and Virginia is obviously a rudderless ship right now with no direction on or off the field. The closest thing they have to a special player is Hall, who had some blistering shots in the game and played the through ball for Harrison on UVA's goal.

    Gelnovatch's behavior was pretty embarrassing, and at one point the game was stopped because 'he demanded an explanation from the official' about an apparent missed call and taunted the official to 'give me a yellow card'. It is pretty shocking that someone who has achieved so little could be so pompous. I would have thought that even Arena would have been embarrassed with this one.

    It was a great ceremony at halftime for Rennie (despite LDB's personal feelings about him), which included presentations from Adidas and Eurosport.

    Duke doesn't get any style points for this game, either, but they were able to ground out some goals and scored three goals for the second consecutive game. Does anyone know more about this kid Loftus? He is really big (listed at 6'5") and created significant mismatches for a once intimidating UVA defense (what happened to Matt Oliver?).
  10. Sammys

    Sammys New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Very disapointing. Agree on the lack of direction for this team but I don't think its a lack of talent. They should be playing better than they are.
    Will Hall is a special player (hope they don't lose him). This kid can play and along with the rest of the midfield needs some options up top. We've talked about this before but we need the forwards to hold the ball and make intelligent runs. You've got players who can hit them and play combinations. Hell we've seen it happen if only for short spurts. What happened to the other options up top ? Paul Johnson? Brian Yi? They are a different team when they're got them up top. We keep saying they are a young team that needs to find their nitch but time is winding down. Uva needs to settle on a line up that works and get them some minutes. As far as the defense - maybe frustration.
  11. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002
    I agree with SSS that Big Game George acted like a jerk on the sideline. Here's the thing about Virginia...he's got Vide sitting on the bench that entire game, who is creative and oustanding on the ball. He and Hall would work some combinations for sure, instead, UVA has midfielders in the game constantly dribbling and giving the ball away. I left at the 60th minute, and Paul Johnson had not seen the field either. Plus, I heard at the game that a UVA was booted off the team on Tuesday, which I'm sure doesn't help morale.

    The decisions these coaches make, on who to play, who not to play, etc., seem to be based on who's in the doghouse, and who's not. To tell you the truth, I think BGG likes the less talented thugs a heckuva lot better than talented kids like Johnson and Vide because they're creative, and they play the game the way it's supposed to be played. BGG is all about hacking the crap out of every opposing player. Same for Rennie, and most coaches out there. College soccer coaches are a joke.
  12. KinleyDog

    KinleyDog New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    i come back from a few days of r&r without web access and come to find that the snooties beat the aaacHOOies (i.e., they play sick). from the things i read about this game and the one that uva played against w.va it just seems like a lot more could have been accomplished by this uva team than what has transpired. it is often said that hard times expose your greatest weaknesses, and i have to agree with luvie and others that the weakness of this team seems to be g.meister. other programs win with young players; uva implodes instead. ugh! i can see the upcoming opponents saying with joy 'we got next'!!
  13. SouthernSoccerScene

    SouthernSoccerScene New Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    What's on the horizon for UVA soccer????

    For those of you who are Cavalier fans, what I would be most concerned about is the cupboard being bare without the look of any help on the horizon.

    The only seniors on the roster appeared to be a back-up goalkeeper and Oliver, who is a redshirt senior and has another year left. With Simo sitting in the wings (although no one seems to know whether he'll ever be able to play again, and at worst, anywhere near where he was prior to the car accident), I don't know if they will be able to bring any other new players in without having scholarship moneys available.

    Top Drawer Soccer listed Jeremy Barlow (local player from Reston FC club) as a recruit who had commited to UVA, but I hadn't heard anything really positive about his chances of being able to improve their current situation. With top players already commiting to Wake Forest, Duke and Maryland, it looks like those teams might all continue to improve or stay where they are while the Cavs might actually regress....if that's possible after their poor performance the other night.
  14. KinleyDog

    KinleyDog New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    triple.s, you make some good points there. my guess is that some of the better players on uva have options for next year that don't include hoo'ville. so the problem won't be scholarship money, but talent retention and finding out if the uva admin has 'huevos' like a bull or like jelly beans. dynasties like ucla basketball and alabama football lost their luster right after their legendary coach left. the uva dynasty has taken many painful seasons under the current trainer to destroy what bruce almighty built for the hoo'ers to be proud of. this even with all the advantages that he has over EVERY other college coaches given his positions with the national teams.
  15. Sammys

    Sammys New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    First, I DO think that UVA's record should be better than it is. They have the horses.

    That said:

    Last years team was a much more experienced team and had a prolific goal scoring forward in Alecko (something this team lacks) . They went 15-7 and 3-3 in the ACC. Not only made the NCAA's but were seeded.

    This years team can do no worse than tie last years 3-3 ACC record and could end up 11-6. Even if they lose one of their last four that gives them 7 losses, the same as last years team. They've beat some very good teams in Wake and UNC. Hell, UNC just tied NC State 1-1 making UVA's 1-0 loss to NC State a little easier to swallow.

    So while I agree that they have the ability to be playing better soccer as a team. . . Their record is not much different than last years team which was an older, more experienced squad.
  16. KinleyDog

    KinleyDog New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    ....except for the fact that except for umd, the acc is not what it was last year in terms of team strength. duke is down, state is not much better; wake having a bad yr.; unc unstable; clemson in doldrums, etc.
  17. Sammys

    Sammys New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    "except for the fact that except for umd, the acc is not what it was last year in terms of team strength. duke is down, state is not much better; wake having a bad yr.; unc unstable; clemson in doldrums, etc."

    I think the ACC is still pretty strong.
    Maryland, Wake, and UNC have all been top 5/10 in the country ALL year. UVA has been in and out of the rankings. Then you have a team like St. Johns leading the BIG East and both games against ACC teams have been losses.
  18. soccertom

    soccertom New Member

    Jun 2, 1999
    Bruce Arena's loyalty to his boys is his biggest flaw. As the National Team coach Bruce should paint his operations from an international landscape but sadly his paintings are drawn on a much smaller canvas. Loyalty is fine until it begins to weaken your program and I'm pretty sure UVA's program has been weakened and I also suspect that due to Arena's old boy network our nations National Team Program suffers as well.
  19. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Sammys, your points are fair but two of the losses you speak of came in the ACC and NCAA Tournament. Assuming UVa gets similar losses this year, they will flirt with a 10 loss this season. And, they might not even get the chance to lose in the NCAAs this year if they don't turn things around.

    I think peoples problems with Gelnovatch is that he has done so little with so much. To wit:

    *Virginia still has the best college soccer stadium in the country. Others have built college stadiums that are nice but I've yet to see one as nice as Klockner.

    *And, they get good crowds. A few programs - UConn, for example - average bigger crowds but game in, game out, UVa can count on a pretty larger crowd with more for the bigger games.

    *It's a good academic school, a very pretty school, a good social school and it plays in the best soccer conference.

    *It has history and tradition from the Bruce Dynasty and the soccer program is supported by the athletic administration as well as any in the country.

    *Because Bruce gave him the gig, Gelnovatch's position as U18 national team coach gives him a recruting edge - in terms of access and influence - over other programs. No other school has their men's soccer coach doubling as a coach for a youth national team.

    Also, assistant Craig Reynolds is an ODP coach in Region I, giving them more access to top players. (Other college coaches are in this position, as well.)

    So, with all that, Gelnovatch should be doing much better. Sure, NCAA titles take some luck so I don't fault him for never actually winning it all. But, his teams haven't come to close to this for three years. And, before that, he was upset, at HOME, i the quaterfinals three straight years.

    Remeber, in the six seasons prior to him taking over, they went to the Final Four five times. In the eight since he's been in charge, they've been once, assuming they don't go this year.

    Yeah, this is a young team. But, why is it young? He built it. Yes, some players turned pro early and that hurts, but the team should be able to handle that. But why are players transfering and quitting the program? All these are things that Gelnovatch should be held accountable for.

    And, a losing season, with all that UVa soccer has going for it, should be unacceptable. Period.
  20. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002
    Okay guys, I need to chime in here. First, I agree with soccertom about the good ol' boy network that BA has in place, but it actually goes deeper than that, and therein lies the problem. In college soccer, there is a mafia of coaches, who, in conjunction with US Soccer, pretty much control everything. I'll get into this in more detail in another post, when I have more time.

    Concerning Gelnovatch...the guy has ZERO people skills. Absolutely zip. He lies through his teeth to his players on a regular basis, he screws with their heads constantly, and I am not the least bit surprised at their lack of success this year. If you're ALWAYS negative with someone, and you lie to that person on top of it, do you really think that person is going to give you his best effort? I've never seen a worse group of people managers than D1 soccer coaches, as a whole. They're all pretty much the same. They manipulate these kids, and let's remember, these are 18 and 19 year old KIDS, they're not yet adults. You work your butt off in practice, the coach tells you you're starting, and come game time, you find yourself on the bench WITHOUT explanation. You don't even PLAY in the match. Now you tell me....what is that coach going to get in return?

    The thing is, it's not just BGG. I could plug in a hundred other names and it would be the same thing.
  21. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
  22. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't this the truth ? Its an exception when a college team manages to play attractive, possession-oriented soccer.

    I always blamed the relatively liberal substitution rules as the cause, but LDB's juxtaposition of his sons U-16 game as a contrast to the college game really shoots that theory.

    You could also argue that a college coach only has a player for four years so how much development can he do ? Most club coaches only coach a kid for 2-3 years so that shoots that theory as well.

    My theory is that most college coaches are just not very good and the system isn't set up to weed out the ones that get bad results.
  23. soccertom

    soccertom New Member

    Jun 2, 1999
    Sandon as usual you make some good points and I agree with most of what you have to say about the current state of the UVA program.

    You bring up a couple of points I must take exception to,

    UVA's Facilities and attendance.

    I'm sure Klockner Stadium is a fine facility but calling it the best soccer stadium in the country is a bit of stretch. Klockner has 3600 of permanant seating and the cost of the entire construction project was 3.5 million. SLU's Robert R. Hermann Stadium playing surface alone cost more than 5 million to construct which doesn't include any of the actual building contruction costs or seating construction costs. The playing surface is indeed state of the art and is highlighted by the following,

    Original Cost: $5.1 million
    Original Design: Hastings & Chivetta Architects
    Original Construction: Sverdrup Corp.
    Renovation Contractor: Munie Outdoor Services, Caseyville, Ill.
    Renovation Began: March 17, 1999
    Field Sodded: May 25, 1999
    Grand Stand Capacity: 2,400
    Total Capacity: 6,050
    Surface: Natural Grass, mix of bluegrasses
    Surface Area: 155,000 square feet
    Field Dimensions: 120 x 75 yards
    Grade: No crown
    Surface Variance: +/- 1/2 inch
    Infiltration Rate: 10 inches per hour
    Irrigation: 70 sprinkler heads
    23 valves
    Approx. 1.5 miles of piping
    Root Zone: 10 inches, 8400 tons
    90% sand
    10% peat moss
    Gravel Drainage Blanket:
    4 inches, 3100 tons

    A practice field with the same constuction features and dimensions is adjacent to the main playing field. Hermann Stadium has permanant seating of 6050+ and can be easily expanded to 10,000+ with temporary seating being added.

    Go here to learn more about the "best" facility in NCAA College Soccer,


    Attendance @ Klockner Stadium this year through 11 dates and featuring some of the marquee soccer teams in the country totals 15076 for a per game average of 1370. Attendance @ Hermann Stadium through 8 games is 23,229 for a per game average of 2903 which is more than 2 times the average attendance that SLU enjoys over UVA with a significantly less attractive home schedule. In the event that SLU had the good fortune of scheduling @ home the likes of traditional soccer powers such as Clemson, Virginia, Wake Forest, Seton Hall, South Carolina, North Carolina and William and Mary the SLU average attendance this season would be way over 5000 fans per match.
  24. KinleyDog

    KinleyDog New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    ST, i don't think S'nM was trying to brag about crowd size or stadium volume, but was merely indicating that the AGGREGRATE of what gg has available to him SHOULD translate into the MOST successful program in the country; for there is NO other coach that has this much to work with, and yet has delivered so LITTLE to hoo'ville over the years. in business, we would call it ROI, and in the case of this program, ROI is L-O-W.

    the statistics that you provided are amazing on the stadium, and the folks in STL should be very proud of what they have. however, defining the best stadium in college soccer is about important as defining the what the best car in the world is. cost do not define "bestness", nor does size.

    the size of the crowds at stl matches is a bit more phenomenal to me since it gets so eff'n cold in stl in the winter months. i've been to some uva games where the crowd is less than 500, so over 2k people cheering for a soccer match seems really cool. i gotta wonder though what 2k pair of mittens sound like clapping at the same time. btw, one of the larger attended games at kloeckner was to see a really good stl team spank the hoos.
  25. KinleyDog

    KinleyDog New Member

    Aug 20, 2003
    uh oh, was somebody's pee-pee not clean? definition: random - it can happen at any time.

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