Discussion in 'Referee' started by socal lurker, Sep 13, 2021 at 11:02 PM.

  1. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    So, I’m going to take the plunge and do some high school this year, so I’m looking at the rules () book and the description of the dual system. (First whine: they really put dual before diagonal!) I find the drafting makes IFAB look like Hemingway. One should be able to draw a line between the two officials and the ball “at any time”? WTF? The T is supposed to be even with the GK when he’s holding the ball?!?!? Which of course contradicts everything else in the section!?! And I’m still trying to figure out how the trail ref will sometimes have to become the lead and rule on goal line plays on the right? Sigh. Are there any good resources on duals that make sense? (I did dual games 30+ years ago, but we were essentially doing the “two ARs with whistles” version, which is obviously not the way to do it properly.
  2. SA14mars

    SA14mars Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    simpler - lead monitors offside by staying even with first attacker, trail takes a more normal position and watches most of play
    voiceoflg repped this.
  3. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    "Right" in this context refers not to the right side of the field but the official's right-hand *END* of the field, i.e. "your" goal line. So this is a wind-bag way of saying, if you are trail and there's a quick counter, get on your horse and get thee to the goal line.

    Once you do a couple duals the language will (might) make more sense. Thanks for doing HS this year!
  4. Barciur

    Barciur Member

    Apr 25, 2010
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    It's not? :eek:

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  5. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    While I understand that in some parts, a dual is "Lead acts like an AR, even with the second last defender/ball, on the field but generally as wide as the widest player; Trail acts like a CR and takes and appropriate position. When possession changes, Switch. You're now grossly out of position, so hustle to get back/up as appropriate."

    Here, we generally keep play boxed between the two refs. Lead is more or less as above. Trail stays farther back, in better position in case of turnover/counter. Lead can push up if play allows, and generally always pushes up on set plays in the attacking third, but does not generally close in to a classic CR position. Angle over distance, as they say.

    In both methods, the trail should call most fouls (since the lead has to pay at least some attention to offside).

    The former gives you better angles, and more credibility since the trail is closer to play. It also means that you can't possibly make a close OS or goal line call on a counter, unless you're a lot faster than the players.

    The latter gives you better coverage on a counter, and means that the refs don't need to run as far or as fast.
    jayhonk repped this.
  6. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some other tips I use working duals.
    • I usually stay somewhat even to the last attacker when I'm the trail. I'll deviate from that in certain circumstances, but I find that at least gives me a fighting chance to get back to the offside line when I transition from trail to lead.
    • In normal play, I usually don't come any farther into the field than the football hashmarks. Any closer to the opposite touchline, and I don't have a shot at getting to the sideline. This also gives me a chance to also see some action in what would traditionally be in my quadrant.
    • On a set piece (corner, free kick), the deepest I will usually get is the 25 yard line if I'm on a football field. If it's late in the game, I'll take a more normal CR position
    There is no good dual system - only mechanics to make things less bad. The thing is to recognize what the critical call is most likely to be in a given situation, be in a position to make that call, and accept that you'll be out of position in other circumstances. Good luck!
    Spencedawgmillionaire repped this.
  7. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Heresy alert!

    If you are working with a partner you know and trust, refereeing in a dual can be fun.

    No it's not as good as the DSC for all the reasons you've heard, and you shouldn't do it on a USSF game, but it is much more enjoyable than an AR on a lopsided match. Don't be locked in to your end of the field, and do be willing (and able) to sprint when the ball changes direction. As the lead, line up with the forward-most attacker rather than the second-to-last defender to give yourself head start in transition. Don't be locked to your touchline, but resist the urge to get so close to the middle that you lose track of players behind you.

    It's not thaaaat bad. Enjoy.
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  8. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  9. Spencedawgmillionaire

    Mar 2, 2017
    Saint Louis Athletica
    YAY H.S.!

    I've done a mountain of H.S. the past several years, and I love it. But you ain't wrong about that terrible rule book. I just tested to promote to "Certified" in my State for fun and failed by one question. Every single question I missed was either really poorly worded, or caught me out with wording.

    "B1 passes the ball back to A1, the GK, who dribbles into the PA and picks up the ball." Caught me out with the word "pass", B1 didn't PASS it to him, he kicked it at him...etc... Awful rules book, just awful, and the APP is even worse.

    An assessor once told me on a dual; "pinch in as far as you're comfortable, and go as far into the other half as you want, as long as you're not behind the forward most attacker...as long as you feel like you have the horses to keep up on a counter, you're good."

    I'll add that I don't always stay as wide as the widest player, and that's ok. Assessor also told me you can get mixed in with them, just pay attention.

    In my experience in duals (which has been a lot in the past 5 years), nobody has ever been upset about me being in the middle of players and still calling an offside to my right.
  10. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    Afterall, they all can see it perfectly from their angle, why not you from yours?
  11. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem is that the vast majority of referees I know and trust don't do high school anymore, because of having to do too many duals with people who don't know how to ref.
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  12. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    Be honest. How many of you will NOT go past the midline when you are the trail? Not "can not." "Will not."
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  13. swoot

    swoot Member

    Feb 28, 2009
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Radios help in the dual system.
    Spencedawgmillionaire repped this.
  14. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Of course this has a lot to do with how I will approach what I do during the game such as how far to push up or push into the center.

    And practice saying "He had a different angle and saw it differently" when I'm on the team bench side of the field.
    voiceoflg repped this.

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