Dual nationals who could suit up for the US.

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by juvechelsea, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. DirectK

    DirectK Member

    United States
    Jun 27, 2018
    I'm not trying to pick a fight, because I think we're on the same side of this argument -- we need to be reaching out to these kids.

    But... this college recruiting comparison seems to be gaining momentum and it's a total red herring.

    Big-time college sports recruiting is basically bribery. You all know this. Earnie Stewart should absolutely communicate with and have a plan for each and every YNT kid, dual national or not, but especially the dual nationals. Totally agree. Should USSF have someone running around inviting them to ragers with all the booze and girls they could want, hiring their parents for no-show jobs, buying them cars, promising them the world, to get them to commit? NFW. That is prime FIFA scandal shit right there.

    We integrate them into the YNT set up. Check, we're already doing OK-to-good at that.

    We keep in contact with them, let them know they're valued. No check, dropping the ball on that one. Need to step it up.

    We, like, hire Uly Llanez Sr. as a "scout" and pay him six figures to do nothing just so he tells his son not to switch? C'mon. But when we say we want college-style recruiting, that's what we're talking about.

    The best college recruiters aren't just abnormally persuasive people. They're crooked as hell. Let's not go down that road.
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  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    This isn't like college recruiting. After all, these players are or were already part of the US Program. They had reached the highest pinnacles of the program for their age groups, or even played up an age group.

    The ethnocentrism of this 'ignoring Mexican-Americans' mantra is quite frankly disturbing, but not out of step with these unfortunate times.

    If a player who is already a highly valued part of the program needs to be contacted regularly then you have to worry about his mentality. The last major tournament was only three months ago.
  3. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  4. USSoccerNova

    USSoccerNova Member+

    Sep 28, 2005
  5. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    They didn't raise the bar. The US have a long history maintaining contact with players who are part of other programs. Maybe Mexico are finally getting a clue.
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The kid was part of a major tournament three months ago.
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  7. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    What does this matter? A week ago he said he wasn't contacted by anyone from senior set-up, and he's open to playing for both countries. What is the next logical step here, after a potential implication that he's unhappy with that, much less the fact that Mexico has chosen to contact him? I know! Shoot him a message, give him a call, tell him he's being watched and you're happy with his progress.

    Your idea? Do nothing. Sure, he might be unhappy with US, he might not be, nobody is CERTAIN but the implication is there...but who cares, he was already with a US youth team, we've done ENOUGH!

    A phone call might not do anything. A text might not even be seen. An email might be deleted. But WHY would you not do these things, if a competitor is?

    What is your point? That Earnie and Egg don't have time to do this? That we're better than that? That we shouldn't be doing this, even though it takes 10 minutes? That the only connection needed to be built is calling up players onto youth teams, and if that's not enough, thems the breaks?

    When you go in for a job interview, do you follow up afterwards with an email or a thank you card? Or you just think "nope, i gave them their chance to pick me, no sense in doing anything else"?
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  8. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Taylor straddles the tight rope:

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  9. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    What does it matter? If the argument is the kid somehow wasn't being recognized then calling him up for a World Cup tournament that was an age group up shoots a hole through that.

    Yet, though he has only 8 games in a lower, mid-level league, he somehow has to hear from the Senior Team coach?

    After 8 games!?! In MLS?! I hope he doesn't truly feel that entitled.

    And he wasn't merely with a US youth team. He was on a U20 World Cup team. Let's not trivialize this.

    If 3G or Earnie want to 'shoot a call' to the kid then, whatever. But let's not pretend some major crime is being committed if they don't.

    U23s are upcoming. Hopefully, the kid can control himself until then.
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  10. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Right, so instead of doing everything we can do to make a 17 year old feel wanted (and by "everything" i mean a phone call), just sit back and say "welp, we've done enough, kid is entitled". Such a bizarre hill to die on.

    1. Don't care about youth WCs. He mentioned not being contacted by senior team personnel. Thus, have senior team personnel contact him.
    2. Don't care about games played. Yes, Egg and his staff should be communicating with every single youth player in or around the youth NTs.
    3. The only major crime being committed is not doing everything you can (and this is hardly a big ask) to ensure players remain committed to the program.

    Hope everyone is right on this one, and it's all for nothing. But I was the first one to sound the alarm on Gonzalez when everyone said "no biggie, he's committed, let's let him SETTLE IN with monterrey".
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  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    One would think being a part of the program for years would be making a player feel wanted.

    1. FIFA cares about youth teams. Playing in an official youth tournament provisionally cap-ties a players. Scouts care about youth teams.

    2. Games played and the level at played tend to matter. That why Matthijs de Ligt transferred for $84 million.

    Arena had plenty of time to call in Gonzalez, who was playing extremely well in a higher level league. Plenty of people were asking why he hadn't been called. JoGo waited, the US were eliminated, then he made his switch.
  12. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Our Federation?

    Tell that to all the players that have been eliminated from our pool since January 2017.
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Here is an idea. Earnie and Gregg should be in regular contact with every player in our pool. This includes youth players. If this is too much, then they should hire staff to help. It isnt that hard and it doesnt have to just be dual nationals.
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  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    FC Dallas
    He wasn't just on that recent US U20 World Cup trip.
    Julian Araujo is 17 and was just on our U23 trip to Spain as well.
    US Soccer has been aggressively promoting him up age groups.
    So when folks say "we're not in contact with him" I don't what they're talking about. How on earth can folks say he doesn't feel "wanted?" It makes no sense.

    Julian is doing what every other youth player in this position does: He's at least exploring his options. Tons of kids do this, and not just the Mexican-Americans. We forget, but Matt Miazga accepted a Poland youth callup. Lynden Gooch accepted an Ireland youth callup. The list goes on ad naseum. Young player explore. Maybe there are people here who remember the freak out sessions on these boards when we found out Croatia was actively trying to recruit Pulisic.

    Worth noting that I can name 6 current US U20s of some pedigree that have accepted Mexico callups..................but are now entrenched in US programs. Our "retention rate" is actually quite high. We seem to have lost Efrain Alvarez, but there appear to be extenuating circumstances in this case. We lost Jonathan Gonzalez, but there were extenuating circumstances there as well. He wanted assurances regarding his place in the program while there was no USSF president, no technical director, no full-time USMNT coach and staff, no U23 coach, etc. etc.

    Don't get me wrong. We can always do better in our recruitment and retention of these young dual-nationals. Every country out there seems to be in the same situation that we are. I have no problem with some of the ideas and suggestions that I'm seeing here.
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  15. iad_22201

    iad_22201 Member+

    Jan 2, 2009
    Washington, DC
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since when are facts "nonsense"???

    Seriously, I have no idea why anyone would be upset by this tweet. Brian is simply refuting the contention that this player has been ignored. Now should Berhalter/Stewart reach out personally to the player, I'll let others fight about that here. But if you want to see an example of how irrational hatred for the Fed/Media leads folks to say some stupid things, just look at the post above...
  16. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I think you guys are constantly misunderstanding the issue...nobody is saying he hasn't been involved with youth teams. He has. Up an age group, up two age groups. That's great, it really is.

    But, and this is a big one, none of the more recent "issues' have anything to do with youth NTs. This kid recently came out and said nobody has reached out to him, implying that he would prefer to have communication with senior team staff. Then says he's open to either team. Then senior staff from Mexico reach out to him.

    Just ignore youth teams, because that's not where the current concern lies. A top prospect for us says/implies he wants to maintain contact with the senior team staff. What do you do? Not rhetorical. What would you do in this situation?

    By this thread, it seems many would simply go on with the current behavior, not contact him, assume youth team call-ups show that you care (despite implications he doesn't believe that), and see what happens.

    I would not.
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  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    FC Dallas
    Well, we do have a staff member whose role it is to interact with youth players and dual youth nationals. We call this person the "youth technical director." Its already an actual job. The person who holds that position is Tab Ramos. He, of course, has spent a lot of time with Araujo.

    I personally have no problem with Berhalter contacting a player like Araujo. I encourage it as well. He probably hasn't done so because he thinks the kid is so far from the USMNT that it really isn't appropriate yet. At least in his estimation.

    What I've learned in my 30+ years of being a USMNT/USYNT fan is that dual-nationals use their status as leverage to force callups. All Julian Araujo needed to do was make a few comments in the press about Mexico, and the entire soccer community is talking about him. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong................but we're talking about a 17 year old that's started 7 career MLS games. They're not idiots. They're playing the two nations off of each other in order to increase their opportunities. At this rate the US U20 national team is only going to be made up of dual-nationals that are threatening to leave for another program. They don't even need to threaten. One comment to the press and its panic stations all around.
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  18. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    So if you were Egg, and you heard the podcast and Araujo's quotes, and then saw that Mexico's technical director was out to meet with him in LA, what would you do?
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  19. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    That's my thought. The style of contact will be a bit different because you are perpetually recruiting dual nationals until they're cap tied, but a conscientious approach means you're covering all your bases, always.

    We clearly are not.
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  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002

    You’re talking generalities while im speaking specifically to this situation. A senior team staffer for the Mexican team reached out and no one on the USMNT side has done that according to the prospect. That’s the bar that has been raised.
  21. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    #171 FC Tallavana, Aug 1, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
    From what I know from personal experience, shady stuff mostly happens when a family member goes through an intermediary to inform a college program what it’ll take to get the kid. Not the other way around. Colleges aren’t saying, “Hey kid, nice game. Take this cash and come play for us.” They just say, “Hey kid, nice game. We’d love it if you’d come play for us.” Honestly, it’s professional negligence if the fed isn’t doing the same.
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  22. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think organizational malpractice should qualify as extenuating circumstances.
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  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    #173 bsky22, Aug 1, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2019
    I'd expect bettter from you. [Random shot at MLS supporters deleted by moderator.] Twist the argument so it is easier to defend.

    Araujo didnt say he was ignored, but that Berhalter hadnt contacted him.

    To refute the contention that Berhalter didnt contact him by saying Ramos contacted him is nonsense.
  24. TxEx

    TxEx Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur, Crystal Palace, FC Dallas
    Aug 19, 2016
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Big time college recruiting is shady as **** but D3, NAIA schools and others like them recruit like hell but money and cars aren't changing hands. While bribery may be synonymous for a lot of schools that's not true everywhere and certainly not necessary with national team soccer. The bribery is the kids get paid when they attend men's camps. Showing love and respect when you want someone to choose you over another option can go a long way.
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  25. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Yes, why even bring up shady recruiting, that is neither here nor there, and just sidetracks this convo. Like you said, pick any other sport or league. I got recruited (lightly) for high school soccer. I still remember it meant something that the coach came to say hello, even if he didn't even know who the hell i was.

    If a kid's mentioning something he didn't get (communication from senior team), it means he likely wants that. So freaking do it! I simply don't understand how this can even be an argument.
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