in Italy’s case, it’s the very large immigrant population in Uruguay and Argentina, so much so that Argentines call themselves Italians speaking bad Spanish. (Argentina and Uruguay use what Spaniards consider archaic grammar and pronunciations ) Boca Junior’s nickname is “los Xeneises” - the genoans - for that reason. In Uruguay, a guy named Garibaldi was instrumental in the reconstitution of that country being a geurilla fighter for 14 years in Brasil and Uruguay. He is considered a hero of independence there and went on to unify Italy, of course. There are close connections between Italy and the Southern cone of South America. the connections are also in style of,politics. Juan Perón went to Italy in the 30’s to study Mussolini while he was a colonel in the Argentine Army and learned his particular brand of populist politics from Benito. Peronism is still a big part of Argentine politics. The current ruling party is a Peronist descendant. Argentina was neutral for much of the war until pressured by the USA to join the allies. Britain wasn’t so concerned about that. Churchill thought Britain’s beef supply would be safer with Argentina as a neutral country. But one of the places Argentina exported beef to was Italy. Keep in mind that while in the United States the main determinant for citizenship is place of birth, in many countries including Spain and Italy it’s blood line, who your parents and grandparents are. Italian citizenship is pretty easy for a large argentine segment of the population, including for that Messi guy if he wanted.
also Argentine greats like Batistuta, Mascherano, Ruggieri, Zanetti,di María, Crespo, etc. I should have mentioned that Peron himself is of Sardinian ancestry.
I forgot those guys but anyway, 55% of Argentines have Italian surnames and backgrounds. Batistuta's mother's name was Gloria Zilli. While we are at, Alfredo Di Stéfano's dad had ties to Capri and I also hear Maradona's mom also had some Italian ( Calabrese) in her.
The list is pretty endless. A few years ago I was in Buenos Aires during elections for mayor. There were 6-8 candidates running ( including Mauricio Marci, who won and later became President. His father was born in Rome in 1930) and every name on the ballot was Italian in origin. It made me wonder if that was a requirement.
Yeah Macri is a Calabrese name from Reggio. My cousin is actually a magistrate in Italy with that same last name. He is accompanied home by a bodyguard each night. Anyway, I saw the game last night and must say, I liked Hoppe’s goal and all but a country the size of the US should be dominating this region with or without all the existing dual nationals in place. Whether its a B USM team or not, when we can barely beat teams like Haiti, Canada and Jamaica by a score of only 1–0, I think it’s time to start spanning the globe again for more American Army sons playing abroad.
Right, but neither of those countries were ever Italian colonies. Italy did in fact have colonies – Ethiopia, Eritrea, Libya, etc. – but citizens of those countries today get no special benefits/consideration when it comes to Italian citizenship.
Yeah, fine. The reference I made was in the context of eligibility for citizenship through Italian heritage, and with the large Italian heritage in Argentina and the Italian citizenship laws it’s not much different. In fact, the largest influx of Italian immigration commenced in the 1890’s and continued into the ‘30’s it is still going on. So the chances of eligibility through parents and grandparents is actually higher than for, say, Spanish descent. It’s not that you are from a colony or your place of birth that matters, unlike in the United States where anyone born on US soil is constitutionally a US citizen, it’s your Italian bloodlines. You can be born in Italy and not automatically be a citizen unless at least one of your parents is Italian. It’s really not a hard concept.
My uncles lived in Ethiopia pre and post WW2. I believe after the war, they were granted their independence. I remember meeting a lot of their immigrants and descendants when I lived in Florence and Rome but none ever really played professionally or even amateur. That seems to be changing now though.
Might as well put this here too. David Ochoa will make his choice soon. David Ochoa on the @TheDrive700 He is going to make his national team choice soon. Right now it is 50/50. He says he loves both equally and states how tough it is pick one. #usmnt #eltri #RSL— RSLBob (@RSLfan24601) July 26, 2021
My bet is that he selects Mexico... Which sucks that he would court the US for so long then, out of the blue, say screw you guys I’m going elsewhere.
I expect he’ll announce when he finds out that he’ll be selected for Mexico in their upcoming qualifiers. I’m sure Tata promised him such. And he’s waiting to confirm before he goes public.
I would say given the timing it almost has to be Mexico. I wonder if they've promised him the #3 keeper spot or something. I don't know why he's rushing now; I really don't think either team is going to play a 19 year old keeper in the World Cup.
Id say thats a dead certainty. There's been some "Aaron Rodgers guarantees" written behind the scenes by Mexico to make this move secure methinks.
No team ever blows out every team. And when you are dealing with National Teams, population plays a role, but it's by definition a team of outliers. Population increases odds, but at some level, it's up to the individuals (Germany has 20x the population of Uruguay; the 20th best XI of Germany would not beat Uruguay). That said... It's funny, during the whole green card / passport debate I was thinking the exact opposite. General consensus, which could be wrong, is that we're increasing our developmental capabilities at home significantly and we're seeing an ever growing wave of talent. This is currently a C+ team to my mind, but the C team is going to massively improve over the next four years. Players like Dike, Hoppe, Sands and Busio are clearly talented, but young. There's a wave of teenagers that aren't here that have some pretty massive potential -- Pepi, Cowell, Clark, perhaps Joe Scally, etc. Injuries to players like Richards Ledezma and Pomykal kept down the talent level as well. Dual Nationals should always be welcome ... but let the youth we have we have start to reach their prime ages, and we won't necessarily try to need to naturalize guys in MLS (unless MLS improves greatly). I think we'll have our own Diego Chara, Diego Rossi or Nico Lodeiro. In time.
Well, we know the Mexican team... I can see them “Jonathan Gonzalez”-ing him.... “Oh yeah, you’ll be starting for us, once you commit” and playing up every single sentiment against the US team. Meanwhile, after he commits, he’ll be pushed aside. On the other hand, Berhalter was probably honest with him, “look, right now, you’re at best the 4th best keeper we have. But you’re someone we’ll continue to monitor.” Personally, if I was a promising Mexican-American national team player... I would not trust the Mexican federation with a ten feet pole. But I understand that there’s the cultural allure that drowns out every shady thing about their whole organization. That said, what sucks about losing Ochoa is not that he’s the second coming of Peter Schmeichel. Honestly, I don’t think his ceiling is higher than what Steffen, Horvath, or Turner are at currently. But it’s the fact we have no young goalkeepers worth a damn. They all are terrible. John Pulskamp is our only hope and he’s sitting on the bench. Then, maybe, Jeff Dewsnup? Chituri Odunze can’t even see the starting job at Leicester City... neither can Alex Borto. Goalkeeping looks very, very bad for us. We quit producing them in MLS and we aren’t shipping them off abroad. And I don’t know how we went from producing quality keepers to goalkeeping becoming the new left back for the national team.
I mean, sure. It's his life, his call. I do think at the end of the day, this is a call better made with the heart in mind than the head, even if that's Mexico. Picking someone now because they promise a call up seems a short-sided payout for trying to play for a team that you feel at home with. I get some may not know, and no judgement. But making the call now when you don't know ... for a token... eh. I think players end up happier when they wait and see where they feel they belong, not rushing for that quick video-game eseque acheivement. Because I know of bunch of these guys are doing this for status, or because an agent tells them it'll help. Look what happened to Jonathon Gonzalez. He could have been the second 6 this whole time. But he got a game!
Goalkeepers develop later. I'm not really worried about it -- just look at Turner, dude barely played until college. I like Ochoa, I think he's got talent. I just hope he picks on more than "Team X will bring me in right now."
The youth in the MLS today is enough to think we won't have lean on sons of the military who learn the game in Europe as much. Che, Pepi, Cowell...there are so many potentials that can make the jump in their teens and seem to expect to that get me all fired up.
Found somewhere in the interwebs: One day while walking down the street a highly successful executive woman was tragically hit by a bus and she died. Her soul arrived up in heaven where she was met at the Pearly Gates by St. Peter himself. “Welcome to Heaven,” said St. Peter. “Before you get settled in though, it seems we have a problem. You see, strangely enough, we've never once had an executive make it this far and we're not really sure what to do with you.” “No problem, just let me in.”, said the woman. “Well, I'd like to, but I have higher orders. What we're going to do is let you have a day in Hell and a day in Heaven and then you can choose whichever one you want to spend an eternity in.” “Actually, I think I've made up my mind...I prefer to stay in Heaven”, said the woman. “Sorry, we have rules...” And with that St. Peter put the executive in an elevator and it went down-down-down to Hell. The doors opened and she found herself stepping out onto the putting green of a beautiful golf course. In the distance was a country club and standing in front of her were all her friends - fellow executives that she had worked with and they were all dressed in evening gowns and cheering for her. They ran up and kissed her on both cheeks and they talked about old times. They played an excellent round of golf and at night went to the country club where she enjoyed an excellent steak and lobster dinner. She met the Devil who was actually a really nice guy (and kinda cute) and she had a great time telling jokes and dancing. She was having such a good time that before she knew it, it was time to leave. Everybody shook her hand and waved good-bye as she got on the elevator. The elevator went up-up-up and opened back up at the Pearly Gates and found St. Peter waiting for her. “Now it's time to spend a day in heaven,” he said. So she spent the next 24 hours lounging around on clouds and playing the harp and singing. She had a great time and before she knew it her 24 hours were up and St. Peter came and got her. “So, you've spent a day in hell and you've spent a day in heaven. Now you must choose your eternity,” he said. The woman paused for a second and then replied, “Well, I never thought I'd say this, I mean, Heaven has been really great and all, but I think I had a better time in Hell.” So St. Peter escorted her to the elevator and again she went down-down-down back to Hell. When the doors of the elevator opened she found herself standing in a desolate wasteland covered in garbage and filth. She saw her friends were dressed in rags and were picking up the garbage and putting it in sacks. The Devil came up to her and put his arm around her. “I don't understand,” stammered the woman, “yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and a country club and we ate lobster and we danced and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland of garbage and all my friends look miserable.” The Devil looked at her and smiled. “Yesterday we were recruiting you; today you're an employee.”
I could absolutely see that, and Im glad Jonathon Gonzalezing has a name. He needs to think about this. If he declares for Mexico, we win the Gold Cup, Tata gets fired as a result, then a new coach comes in and says, "who are you? we dont need you" then, well, that becomes dumb
Yeah it seems like this team is this team is young. Jackson Yueill is a hot and cold player with the Quakes. Sometimes he comes up with great plays then loses it. Again, I'm all for starting American born or even dual nationals and that is what I'd love to see more of etc. I still don’t see how fair it is for some nations to hand out easy citizenship (to Brazilians and Argentines) after 3-4 years or less and give them easy national team caps and the US isn't allowed to just because their laws are different. FIFA shouldn’t’[ be allowed to get away with this. I foresee a huge change in the next 5-10 years especially with the thread of the Super League etc.
I'm typically quite empathetic when in comes to the tough choices most dual-nationals have to make. And in most cases, if they choose what's best for their career and handle it in the right way, I'm completely supportive of their decision. That said, I don't feel the same when it comes to Ochoa and Araujo. This isn't a Sergino Dest situation where he went with the nation that believed in him first or similar to Musah where he was choosing between youth- and senior-team opportunities. These two players have been given an accelerated path through our YNTs and have now been given/offered full senior team slots. If they turn us down after the first substantive overture from Mexico for the same exact roster opportunity, then they were little more than mercenaries who lacked any sense of loyalty and appreciation all along. I disagree with the reasons Efrain Alvarez left the program in the first place, but at least he switched to Mexico early and stood behind his choice and showed some respect for the resources they invested in him. We'll see how it plays out, but these two shouldn't even be waffling given how well they've been treated.