Why doesn't Australia cap our promising young players to 'lock' them in? Australia should instigate this policy in FIFA sanctioned friendly games. There have been too many good players eligible to play for Australia overlooked. These players have then played for the land of their fathers. Simunic Seric Didulica Samaras Vieri Ergic Croatia have also recently enquired about 3 young AIS or VIS players. Players that need to be capped! Bruce Djite Matthew Spiranovic James Troisi James Wesolowski Dario Vidosic
I think there needs to be something along the lines of a development cap. Say five+ matches for the u-23 team (or u-21 in England/Scotland/Wales's case) and the player is "tied" to Australia until they are 24-25 or three years from when they earn't their fifth u-23 cap. This doesn't restrict who a player can play for in the long run and they have five chances to turn down the country if they dont want to play for them. It also gives the country of origin a bit of security where by they dont have to play a 17 year old reservist in the senior team just to tie them to that country. Take Dean Bouzanis for instance. Australia developed his talent to the point where Liverpool were willing to sign him and now Greece will come in and claim the finished product as their own. International football is supposed to be the best players produced by each country not the best players from around the world who happen to have a greek or croatian surname. The interview on the World Game from Didulica has shown how agresively Croatia is targetting those with Croatian heritage not just Australian's and it stinks.
Yeah, Croatia are like, they really are... Basically, Australia is soo naive, still, when it comes to the world game. We have been played by Croatia and the like too often. We have our wide eyed innocents go over there with big dreams and then the sharks of Croatia, England or whoever circle and before we know it, they're not 'ours' anymore. It's a dog eat dog world and we produce a few of these kids at the AIS, only for them to turn their back. We need to keep closer tabs and hopefully with the A-LEague improving, we can keep 'MORE' of these kids around longer. Hopefully the Youth League will help and the new franchises will take a chance on not just 3, but several under 20s, to give them a chance, like the Roar have this season, with 5-6 in their squad. But we can't rest there, we need more of a presence in Europe. We need a technical presence there, like from the high performance department, based in Europe. So not part of the NT coaching set up, but more Baan and Boultbee's. To play with the big boys, we need to compete with them, so really, almost be like them. It does take resources, but over time, if we give it consideration, we can make in roads, and have our own scouts there, keeping tabs on all our players/young players, known to be over there, even just for trials. It seems that often in cases of 'defection' in the past, the players suggest they had very little contact with the Australian Federation or NT's at the time. If we can solve that problem by having a man who's job it is, is to do the rounds, watching and keeping in contact with these guys, like the FFA's Player Manager/Guardian/Scout/Overseer etc... then atleast we'll have a presence, knowledge and even direct contact with ALL, or as many of the prospects over there, as possible. This role will involve some guile etc... dealing with player managers etc... but yeah, if you have your foot in the door, then atleast you're not surprised and alot of preventional measures can be put in place, to prevent players being usurped, I guess and being wooed by 'worm tongue' (Lord of the Rings).
I'm not sure if we should be handing out caps just to lock someone in. Put it this way, if they wanted to play for Australia then they would reject the other Federations. Therefore if they have joined or are thinking about joining another country, do we even need these players playing for us? If their passion isnt about putting on the Australian shirt, then maybe we dont need these guys. I'm not for capping someone just because....... They should earn it, and not only that- that should want it.
In a perfect world that is how I would feel as well, but this isn't about players declaring for other countries like Craig Johnson. Johnson made it no secret that he did not want to represent Australia or South Africa. If Kewell had chosen to represent England rather than Australia(he said he would rather an England career instead of an Australian int career) I wouldn't have cared because it was a personal choice but when countries purposfully "tap up" our players and convince them to represent them before they are even at an age/ability to be considered for full national team duty is wrong.
Yeah, well that's half of it, really! They're just kids! They can't even tie their own shoelaces, let alone make their mind up as to who they'll play for. When you are a young person, growing into an adult, you are still experiencing the world around you. When it comes to identity, many kids and teens are not settled till their early 20s, or even later. Communal and National Identity ties with this. If/When you travel, you may gain a new perspective about home and the country you're from. We ARE the lucky country. When you grow older, you develop relationships, so may become more attached to your community, area. When you're a kid or teen, things can be tumultuous, ever changing. FFS Dam these bastards, it's exploitative, it should almost be illegal, maybe it should be? It's quite wrong to do this, in a number of ways. A young player, should be free to decide, should be open, have the options, right up to say, 21 or so. Like the case with Tim Cahill, a player can not set in stone, decide the future fate of his career, when he is only 17/18, let alone 13/14 (Cahill's case). Maybe some rules need changing indeed. But yeah, when it comes to senior capping youngsters with dual nationality, I think FIFA needs to closely monitor this. Maybe Federations should be required by law to approach FIFA for permission to cap a dual nation player at senior level, if he's under 19? And perhaps FIFA can reject the application if there's any doubts. And if they are capped, then they can still change their mind, despite the number of senior caps, until they're 20? I don't know really. Dam I can think of all sorts of analogies, like the Medusa, or the Sirens at sea. They allure you and once you're in their grasp, you cannot escape.
Australian football is so naive regarding this issue its painful!! It's time the FFA took control of the matter and put in place a plan to keep our young talent with Australia. In short the FFA needs to cap these guys. We shouldn't trust this issue with FIFA or to luck when we can deal with it ourselves!! Hopefully more competitve games in Asia will provide the opportunity to cap these players, an opportunity which we may have lacked in the past. Theres no excuses now. The FFA will only have itself to blame if our talent continues to be bled away from us......
Re: Aussies Abroad Top Scorer's 2007/08 wats happening? the greek federation is stealing both dean bouzanis and nicholas condylis!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wat the hell is the ffa doing? don't they care?
Re: Aussies Abroad Top Scorer's 2007/08 Nps. And with your last paragraph, yeah, you would think so. But indeed, old world Europe prestige, plus location, still is a strong magnet I guess. And like I said before about an Individual's identity, at a younger age, kids/teens are not soo set in their identity, yet and tying with that, not soo set in their relation to their wider community and therefore their country. Kids/Teens with dual nationality, like parents/grandparents from overseas, with the kids themselves speaking both languages, can increase the tug of war at the heart, a kind of 'Cultural Schizophrenia' for a young kid. Talking about 'Cultural Schizophrenia,' this is a phenomenon younger adults/adults cannot even quite get over. I'm sure many of us Aussie football fans have backgrounds of one ethnicity or more. Many of us may be in similar nationality status as these young boys. But because we aren't young footballers with as much talent as these young chaps, we don't have to face these decisions. But I know, younge adults and what have you, who have a good education and job experience, can be enticed to work and live overseas, for years. Some may even settle like in say, America, or England, marry there and have children there. They may still yearn to come back to see the rellies over here, but the ties to their 'new home' may be soo strong, that eventually the next generation of that particular family unit, will end up being American, English or what have you, with the Australian link becoming increasingly a distant memory. This happens both ways. In Australia, we've been integrating immigrants for decades. We're one of the best Nations in the world, at this. This little snatching thing in football is kind of like Europe getting their own back, in their own small way. We get all these Greek, English, Croat immigrants etc... over here, fueling our economy, becoming our people, growing our population, supplying AFL teams or what have you, but sometimes we get our own medicine, in a small way, as we see what it's like when our talent drains elsewhere (Though yes, we've been suffering a talent drain, or more, a 'brain drain,' in this country, to places like America, for well over a decade). When you look at the wider cycle of life, it's not too surprising and indeed one could expect a certain amount to slip through the net, every generation, as 'to be expected.' But yeah, it's still a worry when 2 of our MOST talented SEEM to be poached from under our noses soo easily. No matter how you look at it, every time this happens, it's like a slap in the face for Australia, even though the boys who make this decision, hardly intend it that way.
Re: Aussies Abroad Top Scorer's 2007/08 They come here to LIVE A BETTER LIFE, not because we STOLE them ffs. "our own medicine" oh please. It's more like. "We'll get educated in your schools, ******** your women, learn our skills in an Australian tax payer funded institute of sport... Then we will go use everything that we have learnt here, and use them for another country."
Re: Aussies Abroad Top Scorer's 2007/08 I completely agree. It would be understandable if these players were coming over to Australia as 12 year olds but for 90% of the cases its their parents coming over as 12-13 year olds. I am a child of an immigrant who came over as a 13 year old so how these guys can have a greater allegience to their ancesteral homeland completely baffles me because while I have a connection with my 'homeland' I am all Aussie.
Re: Aussies Abroad Top Scorer's 2007/08 And me who came here as a 2 year old, I'd never go off to play for Italy (if I had the chance) I feel 100% Australian.
You can find the interview footage here: http://theworldgame.com.au/wgtv/ Click on View Video Highlights and then when the player pops up.. click "aussie highlights" or something. Scroll down the page and there should be a video titled "Didulica Come Back Fight". Thats it.
Well yeah I agree and feel the same way, but with my medicine comment, I'm suggesting that's how some of these European Nations may see it. It's almost like a residual colonialism or something. It's perhaps a bit of bright lights syndrome aswell when it comes to the kids, the prestige, allure of playing for a prestigious European power, in Euro Championships, World Cups etc... (Though latter argument now quelled). Nations like Greece and Italy have populations which are stagnating in growth. They have millions of people overseas who have Greek, Italian heritage etc... That's a massive pool of people, or which may contain quite a talent pool of potential Greek, Italian, Croat National Team players, or what have you. Europe is the big fish in football, no doubt. That's where all the money is, the big leagues. They poach from South America, they poach from Africa, don't be suprised if they up the ante here, but then again, unlike the previous 2 continents, our players are generally bred technically inferior, which we may see as a curse, but atm it means most of our guys are not seen attractive enough propositions to poach. A guy like Bouzanis is the exception in a way. Though ok, Croatia is a different story. But yeah, it's a worry, if this is a start of a new trend, coming from Greece. Because to be honest, from their point of view, Australia is one untapped talent base. I'm trying to explain why some of these kids make the decision they do. But to be honest, the very fact they're kids explains half of it really. Simunic and one or two others are kind of the exception, when it comes to AIS guys. But I'm talking more the guys who make these decisions, like Bouzanis has, when they're only like 15-18 years old. Most of these guys have bypassed the AIS, or are even too young for the AIS. They don't even play A-League (Like Bouzanis, though he was in a squad), they often jump straight from State League, State Academies, or youth leagues, straight to Europe, like all those English based boys (Troisi etc..), or Carl Valeri when he went to Inter (He was captain of Joeys team, so under 17 when he left). Bouzanis is still only just 17. Remember Jamie McMaster? He made a decision to choose England essentially, around this age, even earlier I think. He was capped for England's Under 21s team, but overall it didn't work out. He came crawling back here in his mid 20s, to play for the Central Coast Mariners. By then he was suggesting he regretted that decision and still wanted to play for Australia. I'm certain he could've been in the Olyroos reckoning for Athens 2004 and even possibly Sydney 2000, as he had played some games with Leeds around this time and had played plenty of football on loan in English League One, or Championship even (Which may've been attractive enough to make the squad, at that time). I wonder how some of these kids will feel, if they go through with these decisions, about not choosing Australia, when they are in their Mid 20s?
Overreaction. Seriously, who would've wanted to represent Australia in the 80's or early 90's? We were a shambles on and off the pitch. And hasn't Spiranovic already knocked back several overtures from Croatia? You know why? Because we are finally getting our shit together. Most of the players that turned their backs on Australia did so because nobody gave two hoots about football in this country, including, for the most part, the clowns who were running it. Also because they were being provided an opportunity to play WC football, which was something at the time Australia couldn't provide, which has changed dramatically. All of a sudden we have a bright future and all of a sudden they're knocking back their (so called) homelands. It's not rocket science.
It's natural progression, that large groups of people with European Heritage, may be targeted by certain National FAs. Their population stagnates, so, so does their talent pool. And when one sees how Croatia has been doing it soo well now, it's a logical path. England also have a few well established academies here and several Aussies, especially from my home state, have ended up representing the youth sides of England, Wales and Ireland. It wouldn't surprise me if someone like Greece started to organise their efforts more in this area too. I mean, why not? If I was Greek FA, I'd actively pursue it, imagine the future National Team players they could find, from the suburbs of Melbourne or Sydney? Unless they can't be bothered. And the discussion here, we're not talking about adults. A 27 year old Joe Didulica making his decision to represent another country, is alot different than a 17 year old Dean Bouzanis making his decision to represent another country. Yeah, I know where you're coming from and that is true. And yeah, our prospects have improved markedly, meaning we've narrowed the gap alot and are a much more attractive proposition, especially since we made the World Cup and moved to Asia. But I find the controversy involves that these guys are not even adults. They're teens who typically are not settled in life. Yet a football career is short and by their late teens they essentially have to choose to lock in, what country they will have to commit to, for the rest of their career. Anyway with Bouzanis, all the money, resources etc.. we have in the world... Like others say, if his heart is not for Australia, then so be it. It's possible when he grows, he may see his position/stance may change. But possibly by then, it might be too late. Then again he may have a great career with the Greek NT aswell, who knows? But yeah, there is only soo much one can do, I guess. And this will always happen, despite our improvement. But yes, the rate has and will shorten considerably, the flood reduced to a trickle. Which is pleasing. Still FIFA should make some adjustment to the law, unless it's already in place. A young player should not be locked in, not have to commit, unless he's senior capped, until he's 20-21. I mean, most young players are still trying to establish first team football during this time. It's ridiculous for them to be locked into a National Team, when they've not even yet playing regular first team football. Thankfully FIFA overturned that Tim Cahill decision, after a LONG time. But he got locked in for Samoa, only becuase he played for their Under 20 team briefly, when he was only 14. But they may've changed the general rule now?
The issue is not about who the kids want to play for .. ultimately that's their choice given the way nationality rules apply to football eligibility. Even revoking dual-citizenship wouldn't change that. The issue IMHO should be around the scholarship and other football related costs that young promising players are put through at the australian tax-payer's expense. At the very least, if croatia or italy wants to then cap such a player they should be forced to repay the costs of the training. Add to that a penalty for the spot that the now-foreign player took from another player who may have chosen to play for Australia. If cost-recovery can't be done from the foreign football associations, then put it into an agreement with the player that they'll repay the costs + penalties if they then choose to play for a foreign association. If that particular association is that keen on this player, then they can pay on the players behalf .. The players are free to choose which football association to pledge their loyalty to .. but they're not free to waste our money doing so.
And that's fine .. if the player doesn't want to play for australia, then you're not going to be able to force them to. The best we can hope for is proper compensation for the money/time spent on their training .. which we aren't getting at this point.
good idea, but it wouldn't work. 1) Player wants to switch the federation 2) Australia wants him to repay all costs 3) Player calls FIFA and they will allow him to switch without having to pay anything (because something like that is not part of their law)
That's why you put such a clause in their contract when they sign with the AIS or other scholarship schemes .. a written contract will take precedence unless it obviously violates a FIFA regulation (which it wouldn't). The clause would require compensation for the money invested, it wouldn't stop the player choosing another federation.
At least the total cost of training via scholarships, probably a max of twice that. It wouldn't be punitive, a good player would be able to pay that back in a few weeks imho .. more along the lines of cost-recovery.