Dow jones plunges 512 points in one day; nasdaq down 136; s&p down 60

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by American Brummie, Aug 4, 2011.

  1. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    Did someone say Telsa?
     
  2. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I should have bought last summer, I still think about getting in and hold for about 2 years.

    TESLA is like the China economy, it is built on a house of cards, but everyone that has predicted the incoming collapse has been wrong, and may continue to be wrong for a long time.
     
  3. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    #128 teamdragon, Jan 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
    Nobody could've seen this last summer. But that guy who posted here right after the cybertruck gaffe was prescient. Should've listened to him. Maybe it was Ron.

    Someone who is building very good products for an exploding market of the future is not someone one wants to sell short, regardless how correct one may think one is.
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Well China has the underlying support of a sovereign nation
     
  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
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    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    History is full of sovereign nations that have crashed economically.

    Half of them are Argentina ;)
     
  6. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    With all due respect to Messi, China is in a different league economically.


    And now Tesla has the full backing of China's money and full access to China's market. And the highest ever short interest.
     
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  7. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Forgive me, but that is a very simplistic assessment. The two parties have completely different ideas about what constitutes 'stimulus'. Hence Brummie always lecturing on a subject he knows nothing about and disregarding actually results. Crony capitalism isn't stimulus.
     
  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know about definitions, then again facts do not mater.

    They do have different ideas on what is the best way to do stimulus, as in cutting taxes or regulation vs increased government spending, but both are with in the definition of what stumulus is.


    What Is an Economic Stimulus?
    Economic stimulus consists of attempts by governments or government agencies to financially stimulate an economy. An economic stimulus is the use of monetary or fiscal policy changes to kickstart growth during a recession. Governments can accomplish this by using tactics such as lowering interest rates, increasing government spending and quantitative easing, to name a few.


    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/economic-stimulus.asp
     
  9. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    There are two economic levers, fiscal and monetary. To dumb it down to the basics, fiscal implies tax rates and government spending. Monetary implies monetary supply. Those two levers are not stimulus. When talking about stimulus we are generally talking about short term, temporary measures used to speed up or slow down the economy, and it general involves both of the levers. Generally, an effective stimulus should be temporary, targeted, and dramatic. We rarely get that kind of stimulus, so often the results are underwhelming when compared to promised projections.
     
  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #135 The Jitty Slitter, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
    The point is, that China as a massive sovereign nation with a lot of direct control, actually took steps to deal with a number of the key problems e.g. in the banking industry

    That is partly why the doom lords analysis of China turned out to be incorrect. They didn't anticipate how China might react

    There are other serious analysts who quite like China's positioning in the value chain
     
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  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    In the modern context I raised it, stimulus is generally contrasted with austerity

    Some governments have in effect imposed austerity on themselves. These would include the UK, NZ and Germany. The logic is questionable in such a low interest rate environment when all 3 had significant infrastructure needs - however it was also top of cycle, so in one view it makes sense to hold the spending until now, when UK/Germany face recession.

    In both NZ and UK the logic of austerity was to reduce the deficit (not achieved in the UK). It is also clear that the UK did not achieve a reduction in government spending overall. However it is clear that cutting social programmes etc had an austerity impact on consumers plunging millions into poverty, with net reduction in consumer demand.

    This is why it is accurate to say that the Obama admin was frequently threatened with austerity measures to cut social programmes.

    Once the Trump admin arrived, we see the GOP did not impose this austerity on itself, despite controlling all 3 branches of government.

    Instead we saw top of cycle stimulus, namely;

    1. Gigantic corporate tax cuts
    2. Huge increases in government spending (e.g. military)

    Actual austerity measures, like proposed massive cuts to social programmes, have not actually happened (surprise!)

    This is why it is accurate to say that unlike the UK Tories for example, the GOP never imposes austerity on itself, but rather resorts to large scale stimulus (see also Bush II era)

    Thanks for attending my Ted Talk.
     
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  12. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008

    So in a nutshell, Tesla?
     
  13. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    And today, Trump is promising a big middle-class tax cut. More stimulus! Whether that occurs, of course, depends upon his effort. Even though it's terrible economics the bill might pass if Trump puts enough effort into bullying the GOP. But I doubt that he has the attention span to put in the required effort.
     
  14. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    #139 teamdragon, Feb 3, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
    What? Tesla $1,000 in a month? You can not be serious. The market just went down 600 points yesterday.

    No wonder Elon Musk is an Andrew Yang man.
     
  15. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    What day is it today class?

    That's right, today is Battery Day!
     
  16. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
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    Battery Day? I thought it was Assault Day. At least that's what I wanted to do to those 20 or so old white people, those stupid ********ing rubes who were holding a Trump rally I passed by on the side of the road
     
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  17. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    I don't blame you. What the heck are they doing with a Trump rally when the real rally is in Tesla today?
     
  18. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    Down 812 now. 997 earlier. Just to make Trump's India trip a little more interesting.

    Tesla. Schrodinger. Someone needs to buy up Heisenberg and Einstein quickly :)
     
  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
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    Maybe they (wall street) is feeling the Bern.
     
  20. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    More like the Corona virus. "Everybody was Kung Flu flighting".
     
  21. teamdragon

    teamdragon Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 2008
    A little bit of each, a lot of Trump.
     
  22. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
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    Have you seen the stock markets around the world, bloodbaths everywhere.
     
  23. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The future's this morning called this. Down 3-4%, worse in the Asian and Euro stock markets. Mostly Coronavirus related, but apparently Fox says it's because of Bernie.
     
  24. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Until the markets bounce back tomorrow, which will be thanks to the tireless efforts of trump.
     
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  25. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nope, nothing racist about "Kung Flu flighting (or fighting)."

    Not racist at all. [emoji107]
     

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