phewwwwwww What an interesting thread. Long read from start to finish. Donovan plays tonight doesn't he? 10 o clock if i saw it right earlier on FSW. Think i'll watch this one just to see how he does......
Dude - you responded to my post first - which revealed my opinion of Donovan being better than McBride - it made sense to conclude that by calling me out on this, you disagreed, and thus, thought McBride was better. And speaking of misquotes - which I didn't do to you - you conveniently forget the part of my post that referred to your first question here. "Landon's skills, versatility and durability (McBride, while still a worthy player, falls short in every category) have helped his team to the playoffs." I didn't put any "words" or "fix" your post in any way - if answering more than one person at a time in a post is a crime - well, I've done it on BS here a million times. Anyone who actually reads through the thread can see what was posted and by whom. So no reason to get your panties in a wad about it - I'm certainly not going to change my post behavior because you have.
it might have made sense to you, but that wasn't what I was saying. The point of my question was to say that just because player x's team does better than player y, that doesn't mean player x is better than y. You answered that and while we don't agree that better team results necessarily means better player that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. There could be an entire thread on this subject alone. As to the fact that you quoted me and then continued your post "you said blah blah blah" when you were clearly responding to someone else: I don't have any issues with you answering two people in one post. just make it clear who you're responding to. or don't. you're not going to change you're post behavior etc. etc. oh who cares.
Hello Elizabeth/Sonicspride. I see you're making as much sense as usual. But that's besides the point - do tell me how my favorite 1/2 US, 1/2 English ex.-Marine, National Honor society poster is doing today? I'm curious as to your thoughts on this issue. By all means, enlighten us. Here or there.
I'm sorry - if you're seriously saying that who you're playing against doesn't alter how good you look then you obviously know nothing about the game. Of course it does.... To get a reasonable view of a player you have to watch him over an extended period against different opposition including against the highest quality players you can pitch him against. Forlan has looked good over the past few games but, in my opinion, is far too erratic as you say to be a quality striker. LD has looked good in some games I have seen him in but has been completely invisible in others. Would I rather have a player who is sometimes invisible than a player is is sometimes noteworthy because he misses sitters? It's not much of a contest, is it because I'd rather not have either of them... but to say that LD is noticeably better then Forlan is simply not justified on all the evidence. Frankly, I'd like to see him playing in the EPL for someone like Birmingham or Man City where he might play regularly and see how he gets on. If he's as good as you think, (and I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong), I'm sure he'd get snapped up within a season or so.
Point 1: You are the one making global statements in response to a specific, non-general point. Forlan misses sitters. There is no one else involved. Just him, the ball, and the goal. This is a mental error. Has nothing to do with the competition. There is no competition at that point. Second, Forlan has trouble controlling the ball at times. This is a skill problem, or perhaps mental, independent of any level of competition. If someone passes you the ball and you can't control it, this can happen at U-9 rec level or against Southampton. The problem is the same. Forlan fails to find Ruud in front of the net. I'm sorry, but the pace may be quicker in the Premiereship than MLS, but it still comes down to making the proper decisions. Point 2: I just gave you the evidence in this post and the previous one.
Donavan This whole thread must be a big joke. If Donovan was so great you don't think Leverkuesen would have exercised their rights? Let's see, no goals in how many games? He's just another runner. Forlan may not be great, but pleae, Donovan wouldn't start on Man U's reserve squad. (neither would Mathis).
Re: Donavan I don't think so. If Kirovski could flourish with the nucleus of quality players in United's reserves, I'm sure Donovan and/or Mathis could do so as well. However; I'd have concerns about Donovan's lack of physical characteristics shared by most (but not all - Owen being the most famous exception) Premiership strikers. There are other "smaller" forwards who rely on speed and quickness (ie. Bellamy, Dickov, Sinclair, etc.) but they don't tend to score that many goals either. I'm sure Donovan can head a ball pretty well, but I don't see him outjumping many central defenders in the EPL either.
You think making decisions with Martin Keown or Sol Campbell coming after you is exactly the same as making decisions when faced with Diego Guitierrez? Eh? HA! Forlan does clearly have some mental problems, but I bet he would light it up in MLS to a degree we've never seen. If Donovan couldn't score on the Gals this weekend, he'd have no chance in the EPL. If LD were the answer to Man Us prayers, he'd be over there right now, but he ain't...
Making decisions is making decisions. If you are worried about who is running behind you, then you have missed the plot. It's all in your head. Of course Forlan would do well in MLS. He is a great athlete and has a great shot. But that is another matter altogether. And no one is saying that Donovan is the answer to ManU, only you. The main point of this thread was comparing Forlan and Donovan. Nothing more, nothing less.
Re: Donavan Landon's father has made vague comments to the effect that Landon has some leverage with Leverkusen. Of course, not having read the contract, none of us know what that leverage is (if it exists at all), but there's at least a possibility that the choice does not lie entirely with Bayer.
Here's Donovan's leverage: He's arguably the most recognizable face in US Soccer, a sport Nike is try geeking HARD in the U.S. He said he didn't want to go, Nike said we think you should stay too. (plus) Leverkusen may not think he's that good for the same reasons a lot of people don't think he's that good. They think that he quit. So when he throws a fit about being forced back, Leverkusen says "We don't want you anyway - you're not all that. NEWS FLASH: This happens ALL THE TIME in sports. A player doesn't want to play for the team he is signed to and demands a trade. And guess what, it's usually for EXACTLY THE SAME REASONS - PLAYING TIME. He's not a wimp, or whatever, he just wanted to play. He didn't think he would get a fair shot to do so, and played his hand. I wonder about the guy's mental toughness sometimes and then realize he proved a lot in Korea AND at 21 is far, far from finished. OTOH, that was 23 days, and aside from those 5 games, he hasn't done anything that really sets him apart from any other youth star from any other country (I know about his U-17 exploits). I don't know if he'll ever go to Europe, but I hope he does and he does well. I've always thought highly of the guy, and he is, IMO, our MVP. Until then though, most of the Euros are right in their assessment of him. Donovan plays in a competitive league, but it is far from the highest level and until he moves to Europe and plys his skills against the best day in and day out, an arguments about his skill are nothing more than speculation.
I think you're probably right in identifying the mental aspect of the game as Forlan's problem but, to be honest, that's really the point, isn't it - I'm saying that Forlan has a mental problem when put under pressure of playing against the best opposition in big games which shows up in his erratic level of play. In other words it's not simply a question of him not producing at all - he's done very well lately for ManU - rather it's a question of not knowing which Diego Forlan's going to turn up. I fully appreciate that Donovan did well in the WC - I've already said that... but I seem to remember Forland hitting a screamer against Senegal which was one of the goals of the WC as well. To be honest I don't think Forlan's overall play has been that good and I agree he's been given enough of a chance but I just don't think that another person who has done well somewhere else, (as I'm sure Forlan did at some point in his native country originally), is that obvious as the answer to the problem with Forlan. Also, ask yourself this question as honestly as you can - If Donovan were from, say, Romania, would this question even be raised on here?.. and don't say 'This is a USA men board', I know that. The question is still valid.
I never thought of comparing Donovan and Forlan. When another poster brought it up, I said "wow, that's an interesting comparison. It shows that Donovan should be given a chance at some big clubs. I know for a fact that some big clubs have come calling for Donovan, but his contracts with Leverkusen, MLS, and Nike have made things a bit complex, and perhaps his transfer fee would be too high for someone who is somewhat untested. Forlan is a great athlete and has flashes of absolute brilliance. Still, he's very inconsistent, and much of this, we agree, is probably mental. If I were a betting man, I would say that Donovan will be at a fairly large club within 2 years ("large" being somewhat subjective, of course).
Smart money's on him being pretty damn good as well. He's the one guy I really want to see in Europe, and seems to be the furthest away among US players who could make it from actually going.
Well, after seeing Diego's performance today agaist Rangers, I guess your boy Donovan will have to stay a little longer in San Jose, or where ever Club America moves the team once it buys the franchise. Imagine that, USA's golden boy playing for Club America's affiliate. Funny.
Watching the ManU-Rangers game today, I couldn't help but think about this thread. Donovan is clearly not as good a finisher as Forlan can be (even though he hasn't always been consistant, but neither has Donovan), and he doesn't have ability level as C. Ronaldo. So maybe Donovan could play in the Premiership and be a good player for some teams, but I don't think he is good enough to play for Manchester United. Forlan is.
Agreed, but MarioKempes point is well taken - it's a bit early to start making any claims for Forlan because he's done well recently in a series of games. Having said that the same could be said about Donovan who is somewhat erratic.
Forlan, when he is on good form, not only scores goals, he scores some real quality goals. Most of Donovan's goals are a result of his speed - I haven't seen him score any tough goals like Forlan has shown he is capable of. I have only seen him play a few times, but David Bellion seems to be the type of player Dovovan would be more likely to successfully replace. They both have a lot of speed and quickness, good ball control, Donovan seems to have better passing and vision, and they are both average finishers. By the way, Forlan has earned Van Nistelrooy's confidence. If RVN is convinced, people who still think Forlan isn't up to par should probably rethink their opinion. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=282514&cc=5739