DONOVAN > KLINSMANN

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Honore de Ballsac, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    That would make a nice looking banner, wouldn't it?

    Anybody think that could catch on as a t-shirt or a meme?
     
  2. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
    It's "Donavan".
     
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  3. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    I did consider misspelling Klinsmann.
     
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  4. NMMatt

    NMMatt Member+

    Apr 5, 2006
    I think his son knows how to spell his own last name, though you never know.
     
  5. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Yea, 2012 called. They want their "butt hurt" back. BTW, you used the same lame come-on in another thread. Do you get tired of being lame?
     
  6. TabLalas

    TabLalas Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mods, you've been pretty active against people voicing their disgust over these threads, at what point do you become a little more active in limiting them in general?
    This is nothing more than trolling, plain and simple, the thread is about a guy not even ON this team or going to Brazil.
    This is totally gdamn ridiculous and it's being allowed to happen.
     
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  7. Skevin

    Skevin Member+

    Aug 9, 2009
    Texas
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    Just don't reply man. I completely agree with you that there are too many Donovan threads, but they all die after a few hours because of the surplus of them. Just ignore the thread and they will pass.
     
  8. Skippysasquirrel

    May 11, 2012
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i don't think it would make a nice banner.
     
  9. TabLalas

    TabLalas Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It just takes away from trying to get behind this team for the important stuff.
    All that garbage posted yesterday was as against the team as it was in favor of Donovan.
     
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  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What? I agree on the general concept, this thread is redundant as hell, but how does it take away from anything?

    Are you one of those people who thinks if he crosses his legs a certain way a player will miss a free throw? You really need to spend some time thinking about the relationship between players and fans. You've got it all wrong.
     
  11. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Austin FC
    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Saw a picture of some guy who wore a shirt that said in block letters "Klinsmann is an idiot. #TeamLandon
     
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  12. Iforgotwhat8wasfor

    Jun 28, 2007
    Why so serious "Why so serious"?? You seem like a pretty cynical guy. Surely you realize "getting behind" the team isn't going to do one iota except maybe add to the coffers of the USSF? And why would you want to limit your opportunities for schadenfreude?
     
  13. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    GUYS DON'T YOU REALIZE WE'RE HELPING THE TERRORISTS!
     
  14. Mglnbea

    Mglnbea Member

    Jun 26, 2001
    Northern California
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First off, let me state that I am completely behind the USMNT (yesterday I broke down and bought both the grey/red training jersey and the white home jersey--I still can't bring myself to purchase the Domino's pajamas top!).

    I am still saddened by LD's exclusion. I simply do not, can not, believe that Landon still does not have something to offer to this team, be it as a super sub in the last 15 minutes of each game, or a veteran's word of calm wisdom to some of the youngbloods, or something else. As much as I am happy for Wondo's inclusion, had he been dropped while LD survived the cut, I would have been all right with that. There are other players that made the final roster that, I'm sorry, but IMO, cannot possibly offer what Landon can still bring to the field on game day.

    After the Cup, whether we get out of the group or progress to the Final (!), I will not be one to write about, 'well, if Donavan had been there we would have. . .' because I don't believe life works that way. He may have come on in the last 15 minutes of each group game, score two goals in each of those games, and the US could still end up losing each game, 2-3. We'll just never know what MAY have happened.

    What baffles me is why JK made the cut decisions BEFORE the first two send off games. I would have thought JK would have wanted to see his final 27 (not counting the gks) play/work together in GAME CONDITIONS before making the final-final decision. And, you know what, until JK says this out loud (and he may already have and I missed it) I just don't buy the 'sabbatical' reason. My goodness, that was a year and a half ago and if that, indeed, was a reason to leave off LD in the early qualifiers, it would seem that LD completely redeemed himself in the Gold Cup and the ensuing WCQers that he did play. You know, the games that actually counted for something, unlike the Mexico friendly in which the US blew a two goal lead. If the 'sabbatical' is indeed a reason, or even a part of the reason, why would JK have ever called him in after that?

    Anyway, Go US!
     
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  15. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What the hell is going on here...?
     
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  16. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    "It was my understanding that there would be no math."
     
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  17. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude this is BigSoccer.... Mods don't do shlt here.
     
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  18. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    #18 Lothar is 1, Jun 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
    No... The mods do sometimes go at the wrong people, the people they have vendettas against. I've been the ire on many occasions... but I digress.

    To the point of the thread;

    Donovan > Klinsmann just may have something to do with this. JK went to 3 WC's... this would've been Donovan's 4th. Few select players have gone to 4 cups and that would've advanced Donovan ahead of Klinsmann in terms of legacy, especially in the US Soccer community.

    From the diva that Klinsmann has shown to be throughout the years, especially at FC Holywood, I don't see it as above him to be pety about something like that. From the get go since he's been in charge he seems to have been after Donovan and kicking him out of the squad. He butt heads with Matthaus as a player for Germany/Bayern, he butt heads with Michael Ballack as Germany coach and replaced Oliver Kahn from goal, and he has now targeted Donovan for really no apparent reason.

    It's certainly not talent, Donovan lead the US with 8 goals and 9 assists over the past 2 years. What more could he do to have earned a spot with his play?

    I do believe that JK has some personal issues with Donovan. I do believe that JK actually thinks there are better players than Donovan, based on what he's seen. I heavily disagree, but since it's all a subjective matter, no one can know who is right.

    What is not right is the way he has handled this ENTIRE Landon Donovan situation. Clearly leaving him out of the squad, stripping him of his arm band, etc. had an affect on Donovan's game. To Donovan's credit he came back and proved himself on the field. JK gave him a shot to prove himself at the Gold Cup, and he did so with shining colors. He took Landon Donovan to Brazil with the group of players to prepare for the trip to Brazil. He played Donovan in the pre-WC roster friendlies, and Donovan made that brilliant set up for Wondo (against S Korea was it?). Donovan had done all he needed to do with the national team to show he belonged. Bringing Donovan to the 30 man camp, then closing shop early and naming the 23 says that Klinsmann really knew already who was going. So why make the fiasco out of it. His dodgy answers about it really don't hold up to scruitiny.

    Now, there are a lot of us that are extremely pissed about it. We have had a squad of players building since 2002, improving all along, and getting away from a reliance on foreign players. We have a core group of players who competed in WC 02 going to the Quarterfinals (including a win over Portugal our Group of Death opponent), some who were there in Italy in 2006 when we went toe-to-toe with Italy the eventual winner, and held our own down 10 on 9 for nearly the entire 2nd half and playing with an injured striker, then who held serve with England in 2010 on their way to winning the first Group Phase ever. After having been eliminated by Ghana in 2 successive cups, you'd say there was motivation to exact revenge on them in Brazil in the Group Phase...

    Yet, Klinsmann has never given that group a serious consideration. How many times has Klinsmann played EJ and Altidore up top, while playing Dempsey, Donovan, and Bradley in center mid? Am I the only one who thought we should see that a few times?

    Now, with weeks to go to the cup, Klinsmann scraps key players from the core players who either showed their worth in WCQ and/or the Gold Cup (EJ, LD, Corona, Edu, Goodson, Parkhurst, etc.)... and thrust in players with no experience playing together ahead of that same Group of Death.

    I was cautiously optimistic about the Group of Death. Any Group of Death is just as much a Group of Death for every other team in it. Whose to say we can't tie a Germany or Portugal, and that those teams don't draw with each other? Who is to say what team Ghana can upset (as if they haven't been given their due yet)? That Group is going to be just as hard for the other teams in it, and it doesn't look like Germany or Portugal are playing in form just yet.

    I thought we stood a chance to come out blazing and beat Ghana, and get at least a point out of the last two matches, and hang on to see who escapes...

    But, our coach showed absolutely no faith in American soccer... He tossed aside American based players for players with scant ties to America because they play in Europe, despite having seen absolutely too little to be able to judge them on their merits. That's a slap in the face to a true diehard American soccer fan who has been waiting for the moment where the Americans get to shine... This Group of Death with Germany, Portugal, and Ghana was that very stage for the US to say American players belong.

    Instead it's not going to happen because JK's boneheaded decision to make Landon Donovan his adversary, rather than leading strength.

    This is the biggest story in US Soccer in years. How anyone thinks the "mods" should stop talking about this is unbelievable. This is a soccer discussion board.

    Our best player ever (all-time leader in goals for the US and MLS, who has scored 5 in the World Cup, and been on the squads that went to the Quarterfinals in 2002 and Round of 16 in 2010, notched a fine assist in the win to upset Spain and then scored a brilliant goal that should've helped us defeat Brazil in the final of the Confederations cup, voted best player at the U-17 World Cup, best young player at the 2002 World Cup, multiple time MLS Cup winner, with multiple clubs he captained, etc.) has been dropped from the World Cup squad in favor of either;

    a) a forward who got benched at Sunderland and can't score
    b) a forward/midfielder who is on the Bayern Munich reserves but we haven't seen much of
    c) a player named Brad Davis who is narrowly above average at best
    d) a foreigner with scant ties to America (take your pick Mix, Johannson, Green, etc.)
    e) because he showed up in big games, but wasn't a 'practice hero' to impress at camp
    f) no reason whatsoever, just something personal.

    That's HUGE!

    Expect comments, expect ire at the decision, expect to have heated discussion about this topic for years to come...

    For his part, Landon has done and said the right things, both by Klinsmann's and Donovan's own accounts of their direct conversation, before his fans following on twitter, to the media as a whole when they've surrounded him with questions, and most importantly ON THE FIELD.

    His 3 goals and assist, breaking the all-time MLS goalscoring mark in the process have made the statement that he needed to. He is in fine form, and was left off for no reason whatsoever.

    In that way, at the moment Landon Donovan > Jurgen Klinsmann... he has been the bigger man about the entire thing.

    Unfortunately, he is going to go the way of several of the other MLS all-time leading scorers over the years... Roy Lassiter, Ante Razov, Jeff Cunningham, (and Twellman was more than on pace to be breaking it until the concussions, still may hold the goals/game or goals/min lead still) and now Landon Donovan... Deserving of being on the World Cup by being one of the best players in our domestic league... yet left off the World Cup roster in favor of dubious talent that shows itself on 2nd/3rd rate European clubs. The curse of being the best in America, when the USMNT doesn't even believe in our game.

    Regardless of the results of this World Cup, US Soccer needs to seriously address where it sees itself and how it can take its game to the next level... squandering its talent on the benches of foreign clubs, by continuing to borrow barely American players who developed their game overseas and using them here instead of our players, or whether it wants to get behind the US Soccer movement prioritizing the talent we have developed here at home and giving them a chance to prove we belong on a world stage.

    Hopefully Donovan is the last player left of the US roster for being "American".
     
  19. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    One thing I agree on is that this will indeed be discussed for years to come. Like it or not, leaving Donovan off the roster is going to be one of the big stories of this cup for the US win or lose. We do well and it will be a big bold decision that paid off and if we do badly, the second guessing will go on forever. People still talk about roster decisions and their effects from previous eras with regularity. Why would this be any less a discussion point? Ten, twenty years from now, people will still bring this up.
     
  20. badideas

    badideas Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    Throughout this media circus -- the naysayers, the haters, the teenagers playing Man City on FIFA and making me ragequit with their impressive abilities, the most faithful supporters, USMNT fans arguing with USMNT fans -- some of the worst decisions have been overlooked and forgotten. A man deserved to go to Brazil, and did not get that chance. A man who has worked hard. A man whose fitness is second to none, except perhaps some others. A man who has given all he could for club and country, and has consistently demonstrated his talents at the most average level. A man who consistently enters games to win 93rd minute free kicks in his own half, and forces opposing defenders to jog at high speeds. A man whose strike rate would make even respected European players like Emile Heskey jealous.

    I am talking, of course, about Cam Weaver. Jurgen will not live down his decision to leave this once-in-a-generation MLS great watching this year's World Cup from a Houston pub with positive Yelp reviews. Alone, I am but one voice, but perhaps if we work together, sounding our voices as one, our cries will permeate these convoluted networks of blogs, tweets, sports podcast humor, and MLS staff writer sophistry, and echo through the floor-to-ceiling windows of Sunil Gulati's thirty-third floor Manhattan office. Then, and only then, can we #GetCamtoBrazil.
     
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  21. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    I AM CAM WEAVER.
     
  22. NMMatt

    NMMatt Member+

    Apr 5, 2006
    On the grand scheme of the World Cup, Klinsmann is ahead of Donovan. He scored 11 goals and won the tournament.

    As far as US Soccer, Klinsmann has a very long way to go before he's even in the conversation with Donovan as far as legacy. Getting to the quarterfinal this World Cup would be a start.
     
  23. 21st Century Pele

    Apr 16, 2014
    FYP
     
  24. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope it wouldn't

    Urr, have to disagree. Donovan is a great player. But he is not in the same sentence as Klinsmann as a player. I really don't think Klinnsy gives a crap about about appearances. He isn't interested in participation medals.

    And how did that go for him? Pretty well.
     

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