Germany-to-US phone calls are dirt cheap ... why was he running up these alleged "huge phone bills"? Not smart enough to buy a calling card?
violins, please. No, seriously, though, i don't know if these words ever came out of his mouth, but if they did, it really does prove that he is sensitive - and a bit of a whiner. "Guuuyys, why don't you pass to me...come ooooon." OK, so that was when he was 18 and i'm having a little fun. But getting to the recent press conference or whatever you'd like to call it, the problem is that femfa's quotes are the sort that are pre-meditated, served up by agents and advisors or maybe even Landon helped too. You expect conferences like this to be sort of scripted. But then there were the comments used by yanks-abroad, and you know these weren't in the script, so they are more of landon's true feelings. These stand out, and i don't see how anyone can have a problem with the yanks abroad writer for focusing on this. in fact, i think he was spot on, i think he did his job. and i think they do show they he is a little sensitive, unsure and insecure. and why would that be so suprising? the thing is, its the landon supporters who are too sensitive.
Yeah, I know. I totally understand what you're saying. All I'm trying to do is balance things out. It's funny, Donovan detractors can post whatever they want and it's cool (not saying you'r a detractor. I don't think you are); Donovan supporters try to counter-act that, and they're labeled as being "too sensitive" or having a "mancrush" or equally idiotic things. For every negative biased comment posted there should be an equally positive biased comment posted to try to balance it out - because reality falls somewhere in the middle, obviously. I think when Donovan ends up over there, he's gonna do well sometimes, he's gonna mess up sometimes...but I intend to enjoy it (meaning I'll probably have to stay away from the BS boards) because I do believe in him as a player and I think overall it's going to be positive.
No, it's mind reading to say what Landon means or doesn't mean. It's fair reporting to mention the things he does say. And the writer of the article didn't merely "focus" on the few controversial statements - he omitted completely the other ones. Funny thing, the writer mentions Landon's honesty in the article - in the context of how honest he truly is. If that's so, than Landon means all the positive things he actually said - it's just that he admits to a few reservations because of negative experiences that he's managed to overcome. The Landon bashers here set up a false construct as well. If they only take his negative actions and statements as indicative of the "true" Landon, and anything he does or says positively as the "PR" Landon, then they can justify whatever opinion they like. Very "fair and balanced", that. Also the generalization of Landon supporters is a nice touch. I'll admit my bias here is one especially irritated by poor soccer reporting. I'm one of those who gets peeved when writers misspell Eskandarian, who is bothered when a goal or assist is credited to the wrong person, and who despairs when a website dedicated to American soccer players abroad produces stuff with such little objectivity and credibility.
just one thing, i think the label "landon bashers" is used a little to loosely. i, for one, think that landon will do pretty well at leverkusen. i think he may struggle just a bit in the beginning, but even in those times he'll show he's talented. as time goes on, i think he'll show that he belongs there, and he'll be considered a valuable part of the team. at the same time, though, i don't have a problem with the yanks-abroad article. i understand where the guy is coming from. and i don't think this makes him or me a "landon basher." that's a little extreme.
For what it's worth, I've always thought Donovan tremendously talented... but I think he got just a wee bit full of himself after the Youth Championships. He signed with Leverkusen (major powerhouse at the time) and it seemed he expected to play for the first team right away. I think he felt it was an insult to make him play with the reserves. Note, these are my memories from the stories at the time --- and I read every story about Donovan that I could find, from both the USA and Germany. I think he had a lot of growing up to do... and had to learn a little humility. He definitely wasn't happy with the situation, and either it did affect his play, or he was out of his depth, or whatever - but match reports from the reserve team didn't suggest he was one of the best players. Coming to MLS was the greatest thing that could have happened for him and I think it shows tremendous class on the part of Leverkusen that they've bent over backwards to try and make Donovan happy to help his development to the point where he now comes back to them ready to contribute. Landon has really matured over the past 4 years. His skills have improved, but the mental growth is what has really made his game. So what now? I hope he sets the Bundesliga on fire... but don't think it will happen right away. Not because I don't think he's good enough - I do... but it's his game style. Yes he works hard, yes he's fast... but he has still shown a penchant for getting taken out of his game by physical play... and he will get that in Germany. Personally I think the ideal league for him would be England, but that's not in the cards right now. So I think he'll be good, but not necessarily one of the greats this season.
you need to check your memory.I read a ton of thing here about Landon that are untrue.But let me refresh one thing:Landon moved at16/17.There is a rule in Germany that players can't play in the Bundesliga until they are 18.So first of all, the top part of what you wrote is false. Second, for the short time he was 18 there, the coach ,Daum, was stuffing as much cocaine as he could up his nose.He was not paying attention to the team and certainly was in no state to take much interest in who was doing what on the reserve team. He was spending all of his energy scoring drugs and hiding it.He was lucky he could find the stadium.He was caught just before Landon left,banned from the league. So after reading hundreds of posts about how Landon was a wimp, Landon could not deal wth the bench, etc.The facts were that the reserves were at a level well below him, his coach was a drug addict and out of it, nobody was minding the shop at all.What player with an ounce of self-respect would be happy in this situation?Are all of the posters who are slamming Landon aware of this- it is all public information now, though it was not then.
''I'm not expecting to make the roster, by any means,'' he says, ''but if I make the roster, and I play well, and I get in the 18, you never know what can happen.'' The above is a quote from Donovan from the aforementioned article. I'm not arguing with you. He did have growing up to do - and he has. Just seems others aren't willing to let things go and still hold many things against him for some reason. But it's no big deal. Wow, Bruce, i had no idea about the Daum thing. Perhaps that's what Donovan was referring to in times past about the seedier side of soccer he wishes he didnt' know about. Anyway, good luck to him in Germany. I look forward to hopefully getting to see him play some games. (Please, FSW).
all I can say is that most people here have no idea what Landon was dealing with.Most people on this board have posted such silly thuings and they have no idea what was going on then.Did you ever wonder why the BL people have been so considerate to him since? Well, that is because they know that the situation before was unacceptable and they **********ed up.
I'm shocked, simply shocked! After calling the article, "spot-on"? Really? And I referred to "Landon bashers" in the general sense that there are some here - didn't specify anyone in particular, including you. I'd say something about someone being perhaps a little sensitive, but feel it might be plagarizing. Bruce's point is especially valid - yet a coach in a drugged stupor is inconvenient for those busy attributing Landon's arrival in MLS to personality deficiencies.
You know... I do remember something like that... thanks for the info. I was giving my impressions of him - not facts. It was only my impression that he was pissed at not being able to play in the first team while he was there. Hey, after those late night parties with Daum... my memory isn't as good as it used to be
Sorry, but this is BS. There was no proof at all for any kind of addicition. All Daum got was a small fine (for possession of illegal drugs, he wasn't even condemned for drug use) and he never lost his German coaching license. Just a few weeks later he got a new job in Turkey.
And they finally got Al Capone for tax evasion. There's really no "proof" of anything else - so it never happened. Rationalization, much?
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? He was acquited of all other charges (although he had admitted minor use of cocaine).
Bruce, do you have any info on this rule? I was curious to see if I could find out the details as to why a players could play professionally, just not in the Bundesliga. They were allowed to play in the Regionnalia while under 18, but do you remember if they could play in the 2.Bundesliga? I'm also trying to remember if the "reserve" teams could get promoted to the 2.Bundesliga and if so what would have happened to these under age players. (I'm also interested in when they changed that rule) Thanks for any info you can give.
If Olaf would still post here, he could probably tell you more, but i'll try. There are 3 types of players Lizenzspieler (professional/Bundesliga only), Nicht-Amateur ohne Lizenz ("non-amateur") and Amateur. 1. and 2. Bundesliga are one entity, which means they operate under the same rules. The name Bundesliga (without 1. or 2.) actually refers to both of them. A player, who is under 18 years old can't sign a professional (Lizenspieler) contract. The Regionalliga is officialy (legaly) an amateur league, although almost all players there are actually fully professional (Nicht-Amateur ohne Lizenz), but don't count as "Lizenzspieler". But amateurs could also play Bundesliga. One thing i am not sure about is, if a player below the age of 18 could play as a amateur in the Bundesliga. I couldn't find anything about this in the rules. Reserve teams can't be promoted to the 2. Bundesliga (and they shouldn't even be allowed to play Regionalliga either, but this is kinda off-topic).
but you get my point.The guy was chasing drugs while he was not exactly tuned in to his team.Can you imagine being in Donovan's position? What was he supposed to do when the coach was out of it?
Hey thanks a lot. That helps a lot. I guessed that the Bundesliga (1 and 2) were a separate entity (based on the names) but I see it actually goes further as the rules are different. By the way, I also don't like that reserve teams shouldn't play in the Regionalliga but you're right... that's too off topic for here.
The players, as well as Reiner Calmund, said there was no problem with the coach at all back then, when he was accused of drug use (to quote Wörns: "he is the best coach this club could ever get"). I don't know if this is true or not, but i don't think we can judge this from the outside. I have never heard any of his former players complain about him, even after he was fired (of course this doesn't mean there couldn't have been one who did, i just don't remember anything about this).
German soccer is basically divided into the DFL (German Football League/ as long as they play there, all 36 clubs of the Bundesliga are (temporary) members there and have the right to vote on decisions concerning the league) and the amateur leagues, starting from Regionalliga (organized by the DFB and it's regional assocciations).
Daum was not fired from Bayer.. jeeez.... this is what happened (as I recall... and if a detail or two is off, take it easy, Dave) He was supposed to take over the national team job after Erich Ribbeck left following Germany's dismal perfomance at Euro 2,000. At that point, there was a lot of controversy about Christoph Daum, most of them brought up by his enemies at Bayern. It started with Uli Höneß, one of Munich's bosses, making an off-thecuff remark about Daum being a cocaine user and saying that Daum was thus unworthy of the national spot. Daum told Höness to shut up and volunteered to donate a hair sample to be tested. That took place ... the problem was that Daum was actually using cocaine, so he never got the Mannschaft gig under a tremendous wave of bad publicity. He was subsequently fined after pleading guilty. His coaching acumen however was never in question as Leverkusen finished 2nd that year in the Bundesliga and his coaching credentials were enough to get him the national team job. If he never taken the Höneß challenge, none of this would have happened. But to make the entire Daum saga pointless to Landon, Donovan was playing in the 4th Division (Oberliga) at that time and was in no danger of sniffing Daum's stash, Daum's hair or any other parts of BayArena back in 2,000. Let's lay this notion to rest.
So, yay, we all agree. Donovan's coach was taking drugs at the time Donovan was languishing in the reserves. And apparently, the coach was dumb enough to agree to a drug test when he was, in fact, taking drugs. ooooh, can't imagine why Landon would want to leave that situation.
Leverkusen collapsed in the middle of this, so his credentials are in question, at least in the middle of this drama.They were well in first until this drama unfolded.