Donovan Cut - is this the end of Landon?

Here's a novel concept, I'm going to wait and see how it goes.

If the option is what Davis showed in SF compared to what Landon showed on the wings against El Tri and Jamaica, I'd pick Davis. However, if it's what Landon showed against El Tri in the WCQer, compared to what Davis showed against Korea, I'd take Landon.

Could just as easily be asking, if we're bringing on a forward in the 75th min in Brasil, how would you feel about Wondo coming on rather than Landon? Or how would you feel about AJ or Mix coming on instead of Landon?

But, people are instead concentrating on LW, where Landon has started for the NT a total of two times since the calendar turned to Jan 1st, 2013, one of which was a good performance, the other of which was poor and he got subbed off at half vs Jamaica. Is Landon so bad right now in your eyes he's only in competition with Davis? I mean, this is Landon we're talking about here, who's had much of his recent NT success at SS and some as AM, for LAG as well. His competition is just as much about Wondo/AJ/Mix.

It's an indictment on Landon and his recent form to lump him into competition with a Green or Davis. By doing that, you're inadvertently admitting this isn't the Landon of old. If this is the real Landon, his competition and guys he should beat out are Wondo/AJ/Mix/Zusi/Bedoya. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Oh yeah, because Landon hasn't played well enough that people are willing to make that argument. Instead, they're pitting Landon vs the perceived "weakest link". Not much of a confidence booster.

If it's Landon vs Green or Davis in the eyes of some, Landon deserves some blame for putting himself in competition with that level of player rather than guys closer to the top end of the roster. People in other threads are comparing Landon to Michael Jordan. Well, Michael was never in competition with such bottom end players. In Chicago, he was always the clear top SG, if not top player in the entire world. Even in Washington after his 2nd retirement he was a top 5 or so for his position in the world. He never put himself in a position where he'd be in competition with the basketball equivalent of a Brad Davis.

 

That's what the Yedlin pick is all about. We're going to try to out-run our opponents. The future is the past. Maybe we should bring Bora back after JK gets fired.

 

I know this kid named Jonathan . . he used to sell them down at Newport Beach . .
For some reason, his Dad made him quit . .

 

Frankly, I'd pick the weakest version of Landon you care to name against all of those "weakest links" and I'd bet that my guy would be more useful than yours 4 out of 5 times. And that's only if he's off-form. If he's on form, I pick Landon over any player but Bradley or Dempsey. He's still the best player we have in transition (which we could totally use against Ghana, for sure), and he's still the most creative player we have the player pool in the final third.

This cut was nothing but a mistake technically and tactically, unless you really, really feel that Landon sucks all the energy out of the locker room. But it's a very Klinsmann thing to do. He lives and dies by shaking things up.

 

I had Landon in my 23.

 

So you have no opinion on whether you're comfortable with Davis starting a World Cup match and will just watch and see. Funny, because you seem to have an opinion on everything else. But OK. You can shift the argument away from comparing Donovan to Davis and Green as much as you want, much like Klinsmann is doing, but Landon got cut in favor of those two guys and one of those two appears highly likely to start a World Cup game.

 

Very well, which is to say that, at the very best, the argument against bringing him is "speculative" to say the least. There is just no strong defense of this in pure player vs player terms. Only in terms of team chemistry or motivation could any argument be made. Still speculatively.

 

Your non-stop emotional responses get tiresome.

What you don't recognize, and has been pointed out repeatedly, is it wasn't Landon vs only Green/Davis. It's your tunnel vision which is focusing on Green/Davis, and it's you having such tunnel vision that's the only part of the conversation you focus on.

It's not "shifting the argument". It's taking a step back and looking at the big picture. My 23 had Green/Davis and Landon on it. I know you're thinking, "but, but, how is that possible?" Well, I consider the bigger picture.

 

One of Green, Davis, or Wondo would have to go to make room for Landon. Pick one of those three and that's the guy you cut.

Green's the most obvious choice, unless the coaching staff are right about him, and I'm totally willing to concede that because we have so little to go on. In that case, it's a choice between Davis and Wondo, and that choice is purely a tactical one. I personally cut Davis because I think he'll be grossly outmatched in all three encounters, and the closest that he's ever shown to a "second gear" in the international game is the 2nd half against Azerbaijan, and while he has the best left-footed delivery, he's not the only guy on the team that can serve a decent ball from the right side.

 

Feel free to put me on your ignore list. You're certainly going on mine for describing my purely logical posts as being "emotional."

I couldn't care less about your 23. I'm not at all shocked that some people would put both Davis and Green on the roster. Tons of people have poor player evaluation skills. I just trusted, wrongly, that the USMNT coach wasn't one of them.

 

More emotion.

 

I'd have taken Landon over either Wondo or Zusi. Zusi is completely overrated IMO and we don't need he and Bedoya if Landon is a RW sub option. Start Bedoya and have Landon as a sub option for him, or as an SS, AM option. And, I've had started Fabian at LW. Davis is a situational sub.

Green fills the Shea role which isn't what Landon was competing with in the first place.

 

I don't know that I want to argue about the "overrated" thing since that's just so vague (exactly how highly is everyone rating Zusi is half the question), but in any case, Zusi is in a rich vein of form and is playing with such energy and confidence that I don't question his inclusion. Delivers a good dead ball, too. On form, I definitely rate Donovan more highly, but I nevertheless feel that Zusi is a useful player and has earned his seat.

Wondo could be argued ad nauseum either way in the abstract. If the choice is between he and Donovan, well, that's not really much of a choice. Not on a roster with both Dempsey and AJ on it.

To me, the better argument is Green, Davis, or Wondo. Two make it, one gets cut.

 

Absurd. My arguments are firmly rooted in logic, not emotion. Do I have emotion for the USMNT? Damn right I do. If you don't, wtf are you doing here?

 

This is part of the contradiction though. On one hand, some are saying Landon is better than anyone not named Clint or Bradley, yet on the other hand they're saying he can't beat out anyone aside from Davis/Green, in a position he's had little success at over the last year.

If you're like me and consider Fabian our best LW and a guy who's been our best LW over the last year, then Landon vs our SS's, AM's and RW's comes much more into focus. And no one is really saying Landon is more deserving than any of them.

It's an odd argument to me to say Landon is better than anyone besides Clint/Bradley, but shouldn't be on the roster instead of Wondo/Bedoya/Zusi/Mix/AJ. If he's our 3rd best field player, then he hands down should be on the roster before any of the above, right? Especially if like me you want Fabian starting at LW.

 

I want Fabian on the back line. Period.

(Purely looking at him as a LW he's been our best going at fullbacks 1v1 and getting service in. He's no threat at goal. Then you look at the issues we have in back and there's very little room for discussion where he's most needed, unless we were to go to a 3-5-2/5-3-2ish sort of system and use him as a wingback on either side.)

Name me a SS, AM or RW not named Dempsey or Bradley (though I don't think the tip of the diamond 10 is his best role) that you'd rather have on your team. I want both Bedoya and Zusi on the team, but neither are clear-cut better. I do think that Bedoya is a better tactical fit to start, though. But in any case, you could very easily bring both of them and Donovan. You could very easily bring AJ and Donovan. You could bring Wondo and Donovan, but at the cost of an attacking midfielder (with Green and Davis being particularly expendable). Or you could keep them both and lose Wondo.

In practically no scenario is Donovan even the 20-23rd guy. He's really about #11-15, given recent so-so form.

The fact that he can't make use of a guy like that (who has a terrific history in games when everything's on the line) is a major indictment on our manager, unless he manages to come up aces. But that's been Klinsmann's short career thus far. All over the place, with lots of spills and thrills and unexpected turns.

 

I'll gladly say that I will take Landon over Clint or Bradley as our best in the final third, in any tournament. I will take Landon in the final third over every single player in CONCACAF.

Klinnsman is a piece of shit and needs to go.

 

Hehe.
You sound like a Philadelphia phan bitter about conceding 135 and 136...

Reality is that this discussion continues for several more weeks, at a minimum, and maybe a lot longer, i.e. decades and generations...

 

You're correct that there is a way to make room for these guys and still have Landon. Kind of goes to show that Landon wasn't anywhere near #23 on the depth chart. Definitely much higher, which is where the questions and other responses are coming from.

 

Most of us are pointing to Davis and Green, not because we think those are the only guys he should beat out, but because those are the guys who should have been cut. Get it now? I'm firmly on record that Donovan is no worse than our third best field player. Does that mean that we should cut everyone else and have a team of three field players?

 

Well, I guess we know where you stand!

 

It is difficult to understand how you feel your arguments are logical. When part of your argument is anybody who looks at the same info and comes to a different conclusion is irrational and emotional. You think in your limited viewing that you can more accurately judsge talent than a guy with a cabinet full of hardware from him being on the pitch and prevailing at the very highest levels. Who also happens to see them a great deal more than you and sees him interact in the team setting which you never see.

It is certain one can have an opinion from a distance but it is not logical at all to argue that you are soemhow better informed than him, and know best what he needs to implement his as yet unrevealed strategy for Brazil.

You get mad because somebody accuses of you being emotional when you are having a right proper strop. The irony is strong. Thanks.

 

In fairness, the only hardware in his cabinet from his coaching career is there in large part due to Landon's Golden Ball performance.

The world is littered with superlative players who made average coaches or worse. (Want to hire Maradona? He's available.) From a coaching perspective, Klinsmann's career has not been superlative yet. It's had good and bad moments, and that's about all that could be said about the quality of his short career thus far. In fact, he's been with us longer than he's been with either Germany or Bayern München now.

From a STYLE perspective, it's clear that he LOVES courting controversy.

 

Aren't you the guy who couldn't argue his way out of a wet paper bag yesterday? I guess you're through lurking now that someone is on your side and calling me names. Where's your weak CR argument, bro? Or your killer argument about how we never won the World Cup before with Landon so who needs him now? Go USA, amirite?

 

Here you go:
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/soccerusa/id/3425?cc=5901

Please don't turn this into a CD vs. LD debate, it's pointless. I was only using it to illustrate that he's not a locker room cancer.

"He's won championships, he's carried teams. For me, he's a safer bet in a locker room, in a team."