Donovan:Bayern Munich vs FC Koln 2/21 8:30 am CST

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by tsaldana3, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    true dat.
     
  2. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Except I haven't seen anyone here arguing he's done enough to warrant a high price tag - so that's a bit of a strawman.
     
  3. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    But I think that might be the arguement going on at HQ for Bayern Munich between Hoeness and Klinsmann. I don't know.
     
  4. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.

    I think Donovan has played well enough to show he can play for Bayern, but not STAR for Bayern. If Bayern could get him for $5 million or less, I think they would do it. If they could extend his loan through the end of the season, they would do it. But if the MLS sticks to a $10 million sale, then Bayern will pass.

    I'm neither praising nor trashing Donovan's time with Bayern. The issue is how much is he worth to them. They would take him, but they don't need him. Bayern has bigger issues in central defense and keeper. Donovan is a bit player in their drama.
     
  5. USAin2006

    USAin2006 Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd love to see Lanny come in when Bayern are winning - he scores so many goals on the counter with his speed. He isn't an aerial wizard (his freakish spate of scoring on headers during the winter break not withstanding), so, as others have said, the Cologne situation wasn't ideal for him.

    Should be interesting to see how he goes against Sporting Lisbon (if he gets in the game, that is.) More than anything else, I'd like to see him score a couple of goals before his loan spell expires, so people will remember his loan as a success - say like McBride at Everton. BMB came back to MLS, but his quality, even at an advanced age, was apparent to other European suitors. I expect the same will happen with Lanny.
     
  6. Asprilla9

    Asprilla9 Member

    Dec 15, 2000
    Beaverton, OR
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    it's a great, great point.

    this whole time i'm thinking: "Donovan can obviously play with these top Germans ... why isn't he showing it?" I keep thinking about his good game against Germany in WC 2002 as an example. But you bring up a great point: one thing missing from these Bundesliga games for Donovan, is counter-attacking. that has been a key element to a lot of Donovan's great international performances. That's why Donovan was so good under Arena USA NT, because due to Arena's international style, LD was able to get out on the counter in space, and show his speed, passing and dribbling.

    from what i understand (i don't get to watch much bundesliga either) is that this is a whole different ball game. again, not that LD can't play against elite competition -- he has, afterall, proven that at multiple WCs -- but stylistically this seems so different than how LD has played virtually his entire career. and at age 26, it's way too late for LD to 're-program' himself. not making apologies for his performances, just stating facts as i see 'em.
     
  7. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I agree, he's found to be average at this level as a pure striker. Bayern are looking for better than average for their ambitions.

    fortunately for USA fans, we know his best position isn't a front running striker. Hell we saw that when Bob deployed him in that position against Mexico.
     
  8. tsaldana3

    tsaldana3 Member

    Apr 26, 2008
    TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the probable reason for him doing that, is because he is being played like that at Bayern.

    Bob was starting to go away from the empty bucket to a 4-5-1 with Landon in the hole. And I think he would have played the 4-5-1 against mexico if Donovan would have not been played as a pure ST at Bayern.

    And the other reason being that it looks like he is trying to make his old empty bucket evolve into what we saw with mexico with the pairings of Sacha and Michael.
     
  9. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA

    This is a good discussion for USA N&A, let me start a thread there
     
  10. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    If Donovan really wanted to succeed in Europe, it was unlikely that a trip through the side door via short-term loan to Bayern Munich would be the route. This loan reflects the toe-in-the-water commitment he's had to top-flight European soccer in general.

    He has the talent but lacked the drive at Leverkusen and still lacks it. When he doesn't get his transfer, I really wonder what his response will be at Galaxy.

    When is his MLS contract up?
     
  11. tsaldana3

    tsaldana3 Member

    Apr 26, 2008
    TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2011.

    2010 and 2011 are option years held by MLS.
     
  12. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just watched a tape of this match and haven't read through the 310 posts in the thread, but a few observations:

    On DiMichelis: If it walks like a Goose and talks like a Goose, it's probably a Goose...seriously, DiMichelis was dreadful. He was shambolic in the back, and not only does he seriously resemble Jeff Agoos circa 2002 in terms of appearance, he also takes after Agoos in playing style too (mostly in terms of a lack of pace, which leaves him super exposed way too often).

    Ze Roberto was maybe Bayern's best player (along with Ribery) and shouldn't have been subbed off so early, unless he was too gassed to carry on. I thought he had a great match.

    Donovan had the same type of performance he's been having for Bayern in his sub appearances: several nice touches and some decent passes, but ultimately he isn't impacting the game. He didn't take a shot in 45 minutes of play with his team trailing 2-0. For a forward, that's not a positive sign.

    Prior to this weekend, I was still holding out hope that he'd stick at Bayern. But it's now pretty clear to me that Donovan hasn't done nearly enough to justify Bayern spending any money on him, and MLS still has a hefty price tag on him. I'll be very sad to see him leave Bayern, but the guy just has to be more aggressive and make more of an impact during his time on the pitch if he wants to stick.
     
  13. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course. Zero goals=no star. But, I would ask who, since the winter break, has starred for Bayern? Toni, Klose, Ribery? Hardly. LD is in good company, if you ask me.
     
  14. F96

    F96 Member+

    Oct 24, 2002
    Skåne
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Kicker ratings:

    Rensing (3,5) - Oddo (4), Demichelis (5), van Buyten (4,5), Lahm (4,5) - van Bommel (5,5), Zé Roberto (5,5) - Schweinsteiger (5), Ribery (4,5) - Klose (4), Podolski (5)
    46. Hamit Altintop (4,5) für Schweinsteiger
    46. Donovan (5,5) für Podolski



    He's was not good but he wasn't THAT bad and certainly not worse than Podolski imo.
     
  15. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Austin FC
    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And what else is he supposed to do at the moment? It seems the loan is the only option he has at the moment.

    MLS has a price tag of $8 to $10 million on him. No one out there is buying. Munich was willing to give him a 3-month loan. The fact that he took it and put his reputation on the line to go back to Germany, of all places, I think shows the exact opposite of what you're saying.

    He could have just sat in MLS saying, yeah, I'd love to go, but MLS won't let me.

    He's contracted through 2009 with 2 option years, thus the end of 2011 is when he's free.
     
  16. dub77

    dub77 New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    in denial
    I was shocked to read that Donovan actually played in this game. I watched most of the game but missed the beginning of the second half when apparently he was subbed in. He was so uninvolved and ineffective I didn't even notice he was out there playing. Even when the announcer said we haven't heard anything from Donovan I thought he meant that Donovan wasn't warming up. The only thing I could think of watching this game was if only Donovan was a central defender he'd definitely be signed.
     
  17. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Strange ratings - Z got a 5.5? Wow. LD's 5.5 does seem harsh although I would rate him similarly if the standard was achieving a level of play that would get him a contract offer.

    The worst play I saw from LD was the poor control he had when receiving a pass from across the top of the box. The pass wasn't the best as it sort of short hopped him but a player of BL caliber is expected to handle it. His first touch was off and put the ball behind him so he wound up passing it backwards. You really would like to see your forward make a better touch where he at least has a chance at getting a shot. Unfortunate.

    The other thing about BL is that they put a lot of importance on how well a player does on 1 v 1 situations whether attacking, defending or battling for balls. LD didn't do much in any of these areas.
     
  18. kjksccr

    kjksccr Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    San Carlos, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My argument is that the system does not take advantage of his strengths. He is not a poacher and clearly with BM's playing style (lots of possession in the other teams half) that is the type of forward that will be effective. I wouldn't go sign Toni if all my team did was counterattack. Half of that game he and Klose were standing on the edge of the penalty box surrounded by six defenders. There is just not a lot of room for him to use his pace. Now, with that said, if Klose perfectly legal goal is allowed, LD comes on in the 60th minute with Cologne trying to push for a goal. Would have been a totally different look to the game.
     
  19. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I agree with this post, and think that really, all along the question it asks is the one that matters. What will this spell mean to his coming season in LA?
    I would add, though, that this loan also reflects both that MLS don't want to sell him, and Bmunch didn't really want to buy him. You don't bring long standing national team stars in for mid-year trials. I think that's one mistake we've made in looking at this. It was never really a trial, anyplace besides in the press.
    Exactly why do they need to see LD? This is Albania and there are no tapes (okay, I know, albania has tapes these days. I think 8 track...)? They had ample evidence of what he was like as a player. They've not only seen him play, he's played in the league, and agains the national team, etc. He wasn 't the unknown Moldovian kid who came out of nowhere (who also wasn't). He was Landon Donovan, well known to all involved in the game.
    So, instead, this was a loan, a short term loan. Bmunch had finished behind sc altdorf, ffs (okay, not altdorf, but nearby) and needed a distraction. So they wanted some help kicking the team up a notch. the role they were looking for was spark off the bench. Just to see them over the hump, you know...
    KIlinsi likes LD and thought he'd fit the bill. the problem over here is that in the crazed and unrealisitic world of the footie press, there is no "just a loan" or "looking for a little spark." Instead there's a bmunch in crisis. US star arrives to save the day. Italian strikes out at US star.
    Everything is big and grand and meaningful. And they drop more points and f'ing Hertha jets past (HERTHA???) and it's calamatous, and, gee, must be the yanks fault, at some level.
    Except it's not, and it never meant much.
    It's a loan. Yeah, sometimes they turn into something more, but almost never. Didn't Larrson's end, when he was even scoring goals? (some manu fan will know this, I put Manu in the same esteem as bmunch, teams with way too much money and that make me smile when they reek).
    Upside, we all saw the disspirited LD that returned last time. This won't be like that, at all. I think it can be a positive experience. Be very nice to grab a goal before he leaves.
    But he's simply far more valuable to MLS than he could be to Bmunch.
    Now, a side like Reading...:rolleyes:
     
  20. DempC

    DempC Member

    Jul 31, 2007
    Donovan isn't doing bad. He's just being a decent player.

    Problem is, he needs to justify a big price tag. MLS will not let their prized posession go on the cheap. I don't see why Bayern would drop a lot on him.

    It's just a humbling reminder of where US players are in the world. Donovan is purported to be our premire striker. But at best, he's just competent at the top of the Bundesliga.

    I think McBride and now Dempsey have provided the better model of European development for Americans. Find a club with high exposure, but mid table talent. The expectations are high, but not ManU or Bayern Munich high. It gives you time to adapt and a chance to build a reputation. As good as Donovan is, I don't think he's mega club quality.

    I think he'd have a better time at a mid-table EPL team. Problem is, given transfer issues, that's prob another year away. Time's catching up with Donovan and this may now be one of a series of failed euro attempts for him. That's not likely to bode well for potential suitors down the line.
     
  21. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    5,5 is almost the worst rating. What did Podolski do to earn the 5,0? He did nothing offensively, the same as LD. That LD did clear Köln's 3rd goal off of the line, puts him a notch higher than Podolski, in my book.

    It might be picking nits, but those scores should be switched.
     
  22. jcsd

    jcsd Member+

    Jan 27, 2006
    Man Utd would've extended the loan, but Larsson refused.
     
  23. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    I hope the Bayern brain trust is wiser than those Kicker ratings guys, and the alarmists and disparagers here. I guess I understand the sports media need for hyperbole, but it's sad that Landon attracts such negative attention home and abroad. He's a great guy, an astounding athlete, a fine player and a selfless teammate. Obviously we're seeing the downside of that selfless part... but it really surprises me that Podolski and Altintop can play the way they have and not get the garbage thrown at them that Donovan is trying to duck.

    Here's the deal as I see it.

    Yes, Bayern has a big-time 3rd striker coming in next season.* But they need to win things this season. So once again, they're down to Klose, Toni and Podolski or Donovan. I think Donovan still has a chance to turn this around.

    But Bayern can't play like garbage and expect Landon to save their asses. He could score headers with the right kind of set-up and service. But Bayern resorted to terrible soccer, dumping their possession into the mix like this was an Arsenal/Millwall League Cup tie from the Thatcher era. The set up and service was atrocious, just dumping early crosses into the box.

    If anything, it seemed to me that Bayern had to stick closer to their possession game, to pick apart Cologne's tiring defense. Donovan clearly helped Bayern raise their energy and improve their possession, darting to make poor passes connect, getting the ball under Bayern's control and playing into open or more dangerous spaces. Getting Ribery the rock -- that's the plan, right? Donovan made zero mistakes, saved a goal off the line, improved Bayern's possession, covered ground, was in the mix looking for those weird bounces and mistakes Bayern was apparently hoping to create, and in the goalmouth waiting for a pass that never came his way.

    No, he's not Jan Koller and he's never going to be. Maybe you think they needed Jan Koller against Cologne. But if you're faulting Donovan, the individual player, for not being Jan Koller, you're turning your brain off. Calling Donovan a problem in this match is bullshit.

    I bet Bayern will watch the tapes and see that Donovan could be very useful to Klinsi this season, so it still comes down to the negotiation. Is Donovan overvalued by his domestic league, because he's a genuine 20- goal marquee national team player for the club MLS itself wants to shine? Or is he more valuable for FC Hollywood of the Champions League, which has so many million more dollars at stake in winning things, and now.

    Plus, I think Donovan's strong desire to stay in Europe will be a factor in the negotiation.

    *Will they feel secure in Toni and Klose's prospects for next season, or will they try to cash in on aging stars?
     
  24. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
    Repped.
     
  25. art

    art Member

    Jul 2, 2000
    Portland OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you watch the game? Donovan was terrible.
     

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