Does MLS have enough talent to expand?

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by CbR, Apr 6, 2003.

  1. CbR

    CbR Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    Bergen County NJ
    the leauge will get watered down a bit but i think the leauge is ready for 2 more teams
     
  2. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS can easily field two more teams without becoming "watered down." Remember, the earliest MLS could expand is 2005. That means we'll have two more full seasons before any expansion clubs take the pitch. MLS is already almost bursting at the seams now as far as having space enough for all of the 16-18 year olds that have been drafted into it over the past few years. In two years, the lack of roster slots in MLS for young American talent will be critical.
     
  3. Entropius

    Entropius Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    offside
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the league would be watered down. As it is now, the level of play is spotty-- slow pace and few players, especially at forward, with brilliant individual skills. How many of the recently-drafted kids will develop into high-quality professionals? Not a lot, i think. Are there 40 players in A-league to stock 2 teams? Although there was no exodus this year, it could happen in the next year or two: Landon and Mastro could be in La Liga, and those two by themselves would make for a watered-down league. Plus, there are some who believe that teams don't have a big enough roster size.
    My proposal: increase the international player limit to four. i don't think that 4 would detract from the league's image of MLS being a league for "americans", and it would perhaps put more immigrant fans in the seats. So, 10 teams could bring in 1 senior international, plus 2 expansion teams with 4 slots= 18 quality players from Africa, Asia, SA or wherever to supplement the domestic talent pool.
     
  4. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Kansas City has Kerry Zavagnin, Eric Quill and Stephen Armstrong on our bench. These three players could easily start, and have started, on any quality side. If a team were an expansion squad, they could easily start the core of a good team. KC isnt the only side with this "problem", LA does as well. With two more years of young players it would be easy to create two more 18 man rosters.
     
  5. soccerfan

    soccerfan BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 13, 1999
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    COMPARED TO WHAT ? ......MLS is just a baby still learning to walk straight, ...name the top 20 leagues in the world, now cross out the top 10
     
  6. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To get another 36 players, take 10-15 A-Leaguers, 10-15 off the current U-16, U-17, and U-20 teams, 6 senior Internationals, a few discovery players, and a few junior internationals, and few college guys who might have gone to the A-League. That's more than enough to fill the 36 slots. Remeber the 36 "new players" won't all be on those two teams. Some will be drafted in an expansion draft, others will be claimed off waivers, and still others will come from overseas and college. I doubt the league will be very much "watered down".
    The overall "average skill" of the league will be about the same as it is today. The skill would have been better on average if not for the expansion, but due to expansion it will be about the same as today. Does that make any sense?
     
  7. Hax

    Hax BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 1, 2000
    There's a lot of good young talent languishing on the bench for many teams because there's only 10 teams. Take DC United for example, they have Quaranta, Stewart, Stoitchkov, Quintanilla, Barclay, Eskandarian, and Curtis who can all play forward. Plus there's lots of talent in the A-League, Tennyson and Trout come to mind, that isn't getting a shot because of the 18-man senior roster and 10-team MLS. There is more than enough talent out there for at least two more teams.
     
  8. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we wouldn't have expanded the last time, we would have never known about a guy languishing on the galaxy bench by the name of Chris Armas. Or some backup goalie for the Metrostars named Zach Thorton. More than likely, we wouldn't know that much about Clint Mathis.

    There have been some awfully good players waived this off-season. I think we have more than enough for 2 more teams.
     
  9. benine

    benine New Member

    Jul 22, 2002
    Chicago
    something i noticed at the Tulsa game: there is still too visable a gap between the quality of the better players and the guys who would be A-leagures without the MLS rather than abroad. two cents. It makes the stars that much more "stellar" and i'm sure the gap is nothing like it was in the first seasons, but the solution needs to be bringing in more central and south american players. Is this a visa problem or why isnt this happening? MLS has to have more money and benefits to offer than some of the clubs "down there".
     
  10. Supernaut

    Supernaut Member

    Feb 28, 1999
    Hop, Vinland
    Club:
    Tromso IL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably enough player talent, but possibly the more pressing issue is coaching and front-office talent.
     
  11. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    If there's all this talent sitting on the benches of KC, LA, DC, Dallas, etc.... could MLS expand to San Jose?



    Please?
     
  12. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the real question is would we have another Tampa Bay Mutiny of 2001, arguably the worst team I have ever seen. Execrable. No city, expansion or not, is going to support a team like that for very long.
     
  13. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Expansion???

    Didn't MLS just retract Tampa Bay and Miami a few seasons back? I thought Miami was really good too. Don't worry about too many international players. There won't be a league for American kids to aspire to play in if they don't see some talent on the pitch. Also MLS is fighting an uphill battle against the NFL, NBA, MLB, and the NHL...soccer has alot of work to do before you can even think about getting a good crop of athletes that will even consider soccer growing up.
     
  14. UncleSam527

    UncleSam527 Member

    Jan 14, 2002
    The answer is yes.

    Columbus had to waive (or say goodbye in some form) John Harkes, Dante Washington, and Luchi Gonzalez (and not as important, but John Wilmar Perez).

    There is plenty of talent in those legs with atleast a few years left. This same problem exists with many of the teams in the league.
     
  15. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure they didn't retract due to the quality of play.
    The management and fans in Tampa and Miami just didn't justify having a team in either location. There's no sense in a operation that is losing money pouring more into markets that will never be successful.
    I agree that we have a way to go to get lots of our best athletes to play soccer, but there are already many kids who consider it and many who decide to play soccer. I'm sorry if you can't recognize some of the talent that's playing in MLS. Its not like one of the big leagues of Europe, but there is definitely some good young talent out there.
     
  16. joe guy

    joe guy New Member

    Apr 26, 2002
    Portland, OR
    Does anyone on this thread watch the A-League? I've followed it for three years now and it is obvious there are virtually no American players capable of making any impact in MLS. Get serious, there is nowhere near enough good American players to stock two expansion teams. We are talking about 20 players here! Most of the good, solid players in the A-League are foreign (British isles and Caribbean players mostly), not American. Few college players can make the transition to MLS. It usually takes years before they are able to make an impact even if they make the cut. How many minor league players have moved up to MLS in the past seven years? Hardly any, and it hasn't changed. Wait before expansion. Don't dilute the product. MLS has enough problems; adding to them will only diminish the league. Let's not be anxious here and put the cart before the horse. NO EXPANSION. GET THE LEAGUE ON SOLID FOOTING FIRST!
     
  17. UncleSam527

    UncleSam527 Member

    Jan 14, 2002
    Well, Edson Buddle (I may be wrong on this one) and John Busch (for sure) are two that come to mind. They're out there, the problem is finding them.
     
  18. Look...lets say here (since YI's and such dont count against roster size) each team averages about 22 players. thats 220 MLS players right now. I think anohter hting we shouold be looking to do is up the Senior International slot to 4. so right there (with 8 new SI's on expansion teams and 10 more in the league overall) we have 18 brand spankin new players. Like others have said, many of the waived players could start on most teams. Granted some A Leaguers arent the best but if Jon Busch and Buddle hadnt been given a chance somewhere....where would they be now? I thikn theres enough talent. The problem I see in MLS is that the league is so close that any team can be good or bad with just one injury.
     
  19. joe guy

    joe guy New Member

    Apr 26, 2002
    Portland, OR
    The problem with expansion is American players. If you take two American players from each MLS team, that's twenty American players that must be replaced on those teams. Where do they come from? Busch and Buddle are fine players, but where are the rest? Brian Ching? John Wolynic? These are not the sort of players that MLS needs. Players fresh out of college are even worse. How many of the ten first round players ever succeed in MLS over time? Very few. I say wait until the League is on firm footing before expansion. There just aren't enough good Amerian players right now, and the A-League seems more focused on green card players than developing American-born players. Those are the facts, and they aren't going to change anytime soon.
     
  20. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, those are your opinions.

    MLS won't actually expand for at least two more years. Two more drafts. Two more years for the crop of teenagers in MLS to mature. And very, very few of the league's best players retire each year because MLS is such a young league.

    Of course MLS could expand in 2005. Easily. The two new clubs might not have a good shot at an MLS Final appearance as did the Fire back in '98. So what? But I don't see why two new teams would somehow drag down the overall level of play very much at all. And I really don't see why expanding somehow would negatively affect the other areas in which MLS needs to make gains. Why would granting expansion franchises to, say, OKC and Rochester (which, by the way, is the same thing as saying that the league would be adding two new investors) somehow make it harder to, for example, get that stadium built in Harrison?
     
  21. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    Expansion will have no effect on quality of play.

    The only thing that effects quality of play is the salary cap.

    If good americans get distributed from their current teams to the new teams, that will just leave more under the cap to sign max-salary, high-caliber foreign players.

    If the league goes really expansion-crazy and the american talent pool doesn't broaden, then of course the foreigner limit would eventually have to be raised, but this seems to be an unlikely combination of events.
     
  22. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.mlsnet.com/archive/superdraft_1998.html
    This may have been a better than the average year, but as far as I know only 1 of the top 14 didn't do well in MLS and many of them are stars including 5-7 potential US National teamers depending on when you ask Bruce.

    The '99 draft has 4 of 5 good starters in it as well. Admittedly '97 wasn't too good.
    2000 had 6 college players I think that are currently doing well in MLS. I'm pretty sure all of the first round from 2001 are still in MLS and many are starting (although some like Quaranta, Vaca and maybe a few others are not former college players).
    As someone else said... those are your opinions about things, not the facts.
    2 years from now there will be lots of players forced to go overseas or start out in the A-League who are good enough to play in MLS and probably want to. Also, I think its time to raise the International limit to 4... that opens things up for 18 new international players to come to MLS. Add that to a few more college players and a few a-leaguers. I agree with Minnman. We aren't there yet, but in two years there'll be enough talent around to fill two more teams very well.
     
  23. snowfx2

    snowfx2 New Member

    Jul 28, 2001
    so cal
    Wouldn't these new teams presumably make a profit?
     
  24. Financially, these teams would make a profit or at leats break even with expenses that a new team might occur. If there arent more roster spots available, then how will more young up incoming players get chances? yeah OKC and Seattle/Philly might suck for a year or two but after a while that talent will begin to pay off. Also, the salary caps would need to be raised to liek 2.5mil or somethin reasonable enough to at least attract mid level european players.
     
  25. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would they when no other teams are yet?

    Also, Jmoney, how do you expect the salary cap to be raised to $2.5 million? Where is this money coming from? I guess current investors could keep pouring money into the league at an increasing rate. Is that what you are assuming?
     

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