Obviously, this is true, he did sign a contract, but BS posters aren't the only folks debating the wisdom of keeping want away players. Most fans/clubs don't want players around who don't want to be there. I don't want players on my teams who want to leave. Reading made the highly unusual move of holding on to Steve Sidwell despite a series of offers this summer, and the manager has been on a constant pr mission to the fans to get them to lay off sidwell since (and a difference, sidwell has come out and said he's totally committed to the club this year). But even assuming the MLS situation is different, you note, the players shouldn't sign the contracts if they don't want to play all the way through them. Is this in MLS' best interests? True, these players signed because they didn't have other options, and by playing in MLS have attracted new options. but when you're working in an industry known for much better than average wages (compared to society as a whole) and you're signing players to (thanks to timb4's info) contracts paying: Dyachenko, Rod $16,500 $16,500 Moose, Justin $16,500 $16,500 Nickell, Matt $16,500 $16,500 Carroll, Jeff $11,700 $11,700 DeRoux, Stephen $11,700 $11,700 McIntosh, Ryan $11,700 $11,700 McTavish, Devon $11,700 $11,700 Mediate, Domenic $11,700 $11,700 Metcalf, Andy $11,700 $11,700 you can't expect folks to be overly happy. It is in MLS best interests, in terms of keeping the pipeline flowing, to recognize their current salary limitations. The US market is becoming less and less naive (thanks to the enormous contribution of MLS). MLS needs to work out a way to keep such entry level talent willing to sign, and offering the carrot of being a shop window is one.
Mschofield -- you are mixing apples and oranges. Sharlie Joseph is a talented player with options. At the very least, he could have gone to Scandanavia. Instead, he signed with MLS. Part of the deal is that MLS decides if they want to take a deal and it's pretty clear to all that they are reluctant to do so, except for veterans, during the middle of its season. As for the salaries they pay the bottom of the player pool, I still don't see anyone holding a gun to make them play soccer for a living -- or spurning a better deal from USL 1 -- if they qualify. At some point, MLS and the players will engage in some real labor stuff, but until then, players will have to live with the deal they make.
I'll accept this on Joseph. And I believe MLS should protect it's season. I do think it's a problem holding onto people who want to leave. Maybe they get angry together and play very well, but I worry about whether they're pulling together or in different directions. I agree no one is holding a gun to anyone forcing them to play. But if MLS is relying on players making fast-food wages to play _ at least occassionally _ starting roles in it's clubs, the phrase weak link comes to mind. I don't think a league has an obligation to make folks rich, but the low end in MLS, while filled, is really low, so low that I think it's only short term thinking. I also think that how you treat the lowest earners is a reflection of how you treat everyone.
But has Joseph ever come out himself and said he wants to leave like Dempsey has? I've only seen quotes from his agent. Certainly he may want to leave, but I'm not convinced he has the same feelings towards the league as Dempsey.
On the other hand, the fact that they can earn a real contract could be motivation and result in better play. Also, I don't think anyone can make any judgements on short-term versus long-term thinking without knowing what the real financial status of MLS is. The low salaries are frankly a long-term plan to stay in business until the revenue stream increases and MLS has more control over ancillary revenues. Whether that point has been reached is impossible to say without better information -- which it is not in the interest of MLS to give in either case. I think people should not yet take the existence of the league for granted despite its relative stability.
I don't take MLS survival for granted. That's one of the primary reasons I see value in selling off players. I'm sure low salaries are a survival strategy. But the bottom end is really low. I played with several guys who walked away from the game in the states with offers of more than $11.6k, and that was, oh man, longer ago than I thought it would be, '82, '83.
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2006/09/18/daily51.html Seven familiar names from Colorado were on Forbes magazine's list of the 400 richest Americans.* The magazine ranked financier Philip Anschutz the richest man in Colorado - and the 31st richest American - with a net worth estimated at $7.8 billion. The Denver man saw his fortune rise from $7.2 billion a year ago, according to the magazine. He was ranked 28th last year. Anschutz, 66, made his fortune from investments. He's been involved in industries as varied as telecommunications, where Anschutz is the former chairman of Qwest Communications International Inc., to the world of soccer, where at one time he owned a majority of teams on the Major League Soccer roster. ---------- I don't have the list in front of me, but I'll assume that Hunt and Kraft are safely among the top 400. This is not a 'let's hate on the rich' argument. It's a fairness/balance argument. Please don't tell me these guys didn't get rich by giving their money away. These guys have money to burn - they just don't believe in putting money into players' salaries. If the MLS minimum is 27K, don't pay (a lot of) players just 12K or 17K. Pay your own stated minimum. It won't break you, nor bankrupt the league. ---------- MLS Ownership Club Investor/Operator (Previous Investor/Operator) Chicago Fire: Phil Anschutz & AEG D.C. United: Phil Anschutz & AEG (Washington Soccer, L.P.) Los Angeles Galaxy: Phil Anschutz & AEG (L.A. Soccer Partners, L.P.) Houston Dynamo nee San Jose: Phil Anschutz & AEG (SVSE; Robert Kraft & Kraft Soccer; league run) Columbus Crew: Lamar Hunt & HSG FC Dallas: Lamar Hunt & HSG (league run) Kansas City Wizards: OnGoal LLC (Lamar Hunt & HSG) CD Chivas USA: Jorge Vergara & Antonio Cue Colorado Rapids: Stan Kroenke & KSE (Phil Anschutz & AEG) New England Revolution: Robert Kraft & Kraft Soccer New York Red Bulls: Red Bull Company Unlimited (Phil Anschutz & AEG; John Kluge, Stuart Subotnik & Metromedia) Real Salt Lake: Dave Checketts & Sports Capital Partners ---------- * It took $1 billion just to make the list = 400 billionaires!
Billionaires or not, you can't force them to lose more money than they think is prudent. Once again, you all could be right, but I will go with the judgment of those who stand to benefit by the right judgment and be punished by the wrong one over a bunch of fans, no matter how smart.
I have looked for 10 years and never found Lamar Hunt or his side of the Hunt family on the Fortune 400 list. In previous years the cutoff was as low as $750million - and Forbes itself has listed the Kansas City Chiefs as being worth around $600million. Yet Hunt doesn't make the list.
Doesn't make the list!?! I guess you just can't take anything for granted these days. My bad. Where did all that money go? Has LH really been frittering it away @ 11.6K a throw? I can spot him twenty bucks if he's caught a little short on payday. Maybe the wealth is spread throughout (his side of) the family - his sons work for Hunt Sports Group, for example. Some families 'share the wealth' literally, for many reasons. Is that his brother on the list? Hunt Oil must be making somebody rich. I can see I'll have to brush up on my Hunt family history.
His dad had something like 13 kids. Lamar runs the half of the family involved in Hunt Capital. The other half is the Hunt Ventures half. I'm not sure where the one Hunt on the 400 falls, he may be off by himself. Lamar has always had money, but I'm guessing he's never been uber-wealthy. He lives modestly and comfortably. I think he's always invested more into being happy than in acquiring more wealth.
You mean "never" as in since the family tried to corner the world silver market in 1980? He's a billionaire. He may not be on the list (not all are) but his worth has been, at least, in the low billion region for decades.
The line I bolded may be the funniest ever written on BS; actually, anywhere, throughout recorded history. Andy, you do not have to make the top 400 to be uber-wealthy, and Lamar Hunt is uber-wealthy by any rational standard. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but I'd like to see all MLS players be decently paid. In the meantime, I'd like to see Lamar Hunt live modestly and comfortably on 11.6K/year.
Three of his brothers that he's never - to my knowledge - had any business dealings with tried to corner the silver market.
Lamar has never been tied to the silver deal, his family (the source of the family money is dad's oil billions) has been. When I was paying attention to such things, he'd show up right around $1.5 billion on the richest list, pretty close to bill koch, the richest non-walton family in the area.
http://www.texasmonthly.com/mag/issues/2001-09-01/business3.php http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_Ray-Lee-Hunt_FVT9.html Ray Lee Hunt is worth $3.5B Stan Kroenke $2.1B. Bob Craft $1.3B.