do you consider giving financial incentive to other teams corruption?

Discussion in 'Real Madrid' started by mak9, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. mak9

    mak9 Member

    May 21, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    i spoke with some pro players in la liga

    it seems in la liga the bigger teams (like us and barca) commonly give financial bonuses to lower ranked teams to beat their rivals. The player I talked to said barca does it all the time. I'm sure we are doing the same (to be honest).

    do u think this is acceptable corruption in the soccer business or just a common practice to spread the wealth in the soccer economy. It would definitly improve the competition in la liga which at the end of the day is good for the fans but is giving cash bonus opportunities to lower rank team players the way to go (for example, inspiring a player from a lower ranked team to break one of our star player's leg)?
     
  2. PiSaNgAmBoN

    PiSaNgAmBoN Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    Lokeren(Belgium)
    In my country a bonus is also considered as corruption, a team that would give his own winning fee to a lower ranked team that played their rivals was gravely punished many years ago.

    Teams should always go for the win, and the bonusses gives the audience and the fans the idea that something can be bought, I do feel there is a difference between receiving money to loose and receiving money to try extra hard to win, but I still feel both are wrong.

    About sharing the wealth, I guess there are other, better methods to achieve that.

    So I was kinda surprised that is isn't against the law in Spain.
     
  3. Fuera del Juego

    Fuera del Juego Member+

    May 10, 2007
    New Haven
    It really doesn't bother me too much. Given that in theory every player should be trying to win every game, it really shouldn't matter in the end. When I first heard about it, I immediately thought of it as corruption, but I've come to be apathetic now. It might even make the games more fair at the end of the season by ensuring that teams always have something to play for.

    Edit: The major danger I imagine though is a team not playing as hard out of spite if they expect a payment to be forthcoming for a win and a bigger team doesn't offer one.
     
  4. Luisinho_Madrid

    Luisinho_Madrid New Member

    Aug 11, 2007
    Florida
    i dont think so imagine like at the end of la liga like last season the teams have nothing to play for.
     
  5. -Fifth CharM-

    -Fifth CharM- BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2007
    As long as the clubs are not being paid these incentives to lose then i don't see the problem. These bonuses are only motivational means so if Valencia pays Racing to beat Atletico Madrid on the last league match so they can secure a Champions League position then i don't see a problem.
     
  6. The Ouk

    The Ouk New Member

    Jul 2, 2007
    I don't see a problem with it, but it shouldn't happen.

    Teams should want to win anyway :(
     
  7. -Fifth CharM-

    -Fifth CharM- BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2007
    Well you see, Mallorca did not have anything to play for on the last match of the league but being paid €50.000 per player by Barcelona to beat Real Madrid gave them enough motivation to go out and try.

    If teams don't have anything to play for on the last last day then they will just play youth players or the reserves.
     
  8. Luisinho_Madrid

    Luisinho_Madrid New Member

    Aug 11, 2007
    Florida
    exactly which makes it no fun if they just dont try to play also might i add unfair
     
  9. Mirko23

    Mirko23 New Member

    Jul 30, 2007
    I think paying any kind of incentives should be illegal. Imagine this, you pay some team to beat your opponent and 2 days later the same team that you payed is facing you. How can you prevent that the team you payed won't play a little bit more relaxed against you because they expect payment for the next match when they will play for instance against Barcelona. If all the teams would be equally rich there would be no problem but some teams cannot afford to pay and therefore are automatically deprivileged.

    At the end of the season it can happen that you have 3 or 4 teams fighting for the title and 2 of them are not as rich as the other two. How can you assure that all the teams will have the same chances to win the league.
     
  10. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I don't like it because Barcelona is in a favorable position.
    Nastic probably wouldn't take any Madrid money, on the other hand, Atleti would be all.over.it.

    :D
     
  11. REALFOREVER

    REALFOREVER Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    That is my problem with it too.

    If a small club is chasing the title, they can't compete with the top clubs in providing incentives.

    If it's just between the big clubs then it's not a big deal because it evens out and we don't see the league title given away just because some team rolled over on the last game of the season with nothing to play for.
     
  12. laudrup

    laudrup BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 14, 2005
    They also can't compete in terms of salaries, legal bonuses and incentives, transfer money and so on, yet all of that is legal. The fact that it's the end of the season when these things come up is irrelevant. Some clubs have more money than others, and as long as this is acceptable, late season incentives should be too.

    Money is money whatever you spend it on. If a club spent their late-season-incentive money padding up their own players' salary so they can attract better players, that is considered fair competition, but if they pad other team's salary to stimulate them to do a better job, then it's unfair? It's the same money, so you can't use the position of privilege of some clubs as an excuse because that position *will still exist* whatever they spend the money on. It is highly illogical to be a RM (or Barcelona) fan and complain about these incentives.
     
  13. Horsehead

    Horsehead Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 2, 2006
    Los Angeles
    No, it's not the same as incentives written legally into our own player's contracts. It's not the same money, it's under-the-table, secretive and can't be announced publicly. It is leaked because it is interesting, juicy and controversial as it should be.

    :eek: It is not illogical to complain as a fan of RM (or Barca.) it is something I wish we were above, it embarrasses me greatly but since I know it happens, I endure it with my head down. I don't have to agree with everything the club does, especially things like this. Considering the acceptable and above-board reasons that we are a thriving, class club that you listed in your first paragraph, we shouldn't have to resort to bribes of players from other teams and IMHO, this should be not a part of the way La Liga's best teams operate. Most premiere sports leagues around the world reject this kind of thing, for good reason.
     
  14. REALFOREVER

    REALFOREVER Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    I certainly don't see that as the same thing. Real is able to put together a better team than say Vallodolid because they have more money etc. That's fine.

    But if you win the league over a small team like Vallodolid only because you can offer incentives to the oppositions....that's a totally different scenario. You don't have a better team...you just have more money.
     
  15. Luisinho_Madrid

    Luisinho_Madrid New Member

    Aug 11, 2007
    Florida
    what do you mean by this lol:eek:
     
  16. jimrawr

    jimrawr Member

    Aug 31, 2005
    I don't like it. Follow that road to the end of the path... What will happen when teams EXPECT that bonus for the effort? Then what when lower teams start throwing matches because that bonus is not given, since winning doesn't have an effect on their position
     
  17. mak9

    mak9 Member

    May 21, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    i think these are the type of reasons why every1 hates chelsea
     
  18. Raul-7

    Raul-7 Member

    Aug 17, 2006
    Lomita, CA
    No, not really. People hate Chelsea because they used to be a mediocre team and suddenly they turned into a powerhouse overnight with the help of a foreign investor - in other words they bought their way to success. Not to mention, they act like cvnts about it too.

    The difference between us and them is that we built our success, we started from nothing and turned ourselves into a successful club. It was a step-by-step process and it was rightfully earned. We reaped what we sown earlier on. The same can't be said about CSKA London. ;)
     
  19. laudrup

    laudrup BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 14, 2005
    This is a circular argument: it is not the same money because it's illegal and because it is not the same money it should be illegal. Make incentives to win legal and your point is moot.

    But you have a better team mostly because you have more money, plus one of the reasons that you *are* fighting for the league is because you have money to pay for good players. You have used your money to get you this far, but if you want to use this financial superiority that you have enjoyed all season and crank it up a notch with incentives to third parties, then all hell breaks loose... I don't know man, I find all these arguments very wishy-washy, it's like, since Valladolid made it so far against big odds, we're not allowed to worsen the odds any more because it's unfair... but it's been tremendously unfair since the beginning, that's just the nature of the beast. This is why I say that it is deeply illogical to be a RM fan and be in favour of limiting ourselves for the sake of a fairness that has never really existed.

    There is no money A and money B (or there shouldn't be). You have a budget, and if you want to budget for incentives, then that's fine, and if you don't, then presumably you'll spend it on something that will give you a larger advantage over Valladolid.
     
  20. REALFOREVER

    REALFOREVER Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    I don't think it is wishy washy at all.

    If you use your money to better your own team....that is VERY different from using it to control the fate of your competitors.

    When Real wins the league...I can go around saying Real is the best team in Spain... NOT that they had more money than the competitors.

    If Real uses their money to give incentives to 3rd parties so that their competitors have a harder time....well then if they win the league its NOT because they were the best team but the richest. The principle is very different even if the money is coming from the same pot.

    You may argue that the schedules are never equal since teams face each other at different times of the year with their injuries and forms varying throughout. Not to mention some teams may have their sights on CL or Uefa games and throw a Liga game here and there. Nevertheless, Real aren't in control of THOSE issues.

    To me...this will always be a black and white issue. Teams should have no influence over games they aren't even playing in.
     
  21. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    That's impossible.

    The same way Espanyol will try to take Barcelona any chance away to get a title, gladly handing it over to Madrid, this is how Nastic would give it all they have to beat Real Madrid just for 15 minutes of admiration from the 'big brother'.

    Special motivation is not always in form of money.
     
  22. REALFOREVER

    REALFOREVER Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    That is clearly NOT the same thing. If Espanyol hates Barca's guts and wants to beat them so they lose the title to Real...that is still BEYOND Real's control. That is up to Espanyol. It is their free will to do so.

    If Real offers to give Espanyol a few million, however....THEN that is Real influencing a game they have no part in.

    Some of you have to take Ethics 101. It doesn't matter how you try to slice it.

    If someone commits a crime to my benefit...it is beyond my control. But if I pay him to do so...well then I am ending up in prison. Unless of course I get myself a real good lawyer. :D
     
  23. -Fifth CharM-

    -Fifth CharM- BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2007
    Shouldn't a team always expect that the opponent will come at them 100% ?

    You see, if Real Madrid lose the league to Barcelona on the last day because Barcelona were paying Real Madrid's opponent then i firmly believe that Real Madrid does not any reason to complain because they were initially beaten on the field against 11 players. The other teams motivation for wining should not matter.
     
  24. Madrid_Yank

    Madrid_Yank New Member

    Aug 6, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You're right. You are not DIRECTLY influencing the game (or crime) but INDIRECTLY you are. Whichever way you flip it you're still influencing the game whether you wanted to or not.
     
  25. The Ouk

    The Ouk New Member

    Jul 2, 2007
    it's a bit different actually.

    You're paying a guy to break the law, which isn't what Madrid are doing. If you paid a guy to go to work and do really great, then that would be a good analogy. The key is, we're paying someone to do something, that they should already want to do, and isn't breaking the law.

    If Madrid paid a team to throw the game, then that would be similar to your prison analogy, and Madrid would similarly end up in trouble.

    To reiterate my earlier post though, i wish it didn't happen, and it's pretty embarrassing because it screams of desperation, but there isn't anything wrong with it.
     

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