I wasn't around when Pele was doing his thing and still was pretty young when Maradona was peaking, but the best player I have seen in my time is Ronaldinho. At his best he could absolutely toy with defenses. If Ronaldinho doesn't turn out to be considered a legend in coming years I don't know who does. It's a perfectly legitimate question but all this talk of not producing legends anymore reminds me of elderly people who continually complain about how great things were back in their day compared to now. Oh yeah Zizou is pretty legendary too.
Do not mention C.Ronaldo in the same breath as Messi. Truly an insulting demeaning comparison for the latter. I have seen 6th graders with higher football iq than the Portuguese. From the current generation only one name can be elevated to legendary status, and that is Messi of course.
Ronaldo just moved to an underachieving team and now is aged 25. Real Madrid have not beaten good teams this year like Lyon, Sevilla, Barcelona and cannot advance out of the last 16. Ronaldo does not have a good platform to showcase his talent with that in mind. Now Messi on the other hand has achieved a lot for Club level, due to his ridiculous superior talent but also because of his teams consistency. With Messi looking to stay there for a while, he can continue to reap up the legacy while CR9 may be overlooked.
real madrid are not exactly underachieving. they are second in la liga, behind arguably the best team of the last 20 years. in the champions league they were top of their group, and although eliminated, they have played well in some games. this is no excuse for CR. it is not about overlooking, it just that Messi is in another level as a player,and at 22 he is even more mature in footballistic terms than CR at 25. Barca playing so well has a lot to do with Messi. players like Messi are that make teams from great, to legendary status. (di stefano, cruyff, pele some other examples.) for example in the 4-1 vs arsenal, barcelona was perhaps not as good as in emirates, but messi came just like that and scored 4 goals and saved the day. very few players can do that.
what are you on about? sure Messi is definitely the best in the world currently but Cristiano ronaldo's acheivements cant be over looked he won many trophies with his teams and individual (golden boot, world player, golden ball , two time EPL player of the year) and all this despite being hated by some people. Less football IQ then a 6th grader? lets not be ridiculous.. thing is CR has to have a perfect season to win any world player of the year award, liek what happened in 2007/08... God knows how Kaka won it in 2007 when CR was superior all season but did not win because of the champions league loss its pretty annoying how alot of ppl feel the need to trash ronaldo in order to make themselves feel better about messi. if your Argentinian, since your name is "Pekerman" than I dont know what your on about you should be praising Spain. No offense but one could say that Spain developed messi moe than Argentian did without Spain messi wouldnt have got to where he is today he went there when he was 13 years old and got his medical treatment from barcelona! thats a crucial stage of his developmental process if he stayed in argentina and did not receive his medical treatment he probably wouldnt have made it as a footballer. and in the WC hes not going to have Xavi etc feeding him balls into the 6 yard box to score so many goals. CR is on his first season in madrid and missed over 2 months of games through injuries and suspensions and has a very good goal per games ratio still.
Real madrid dont play like a team, and yes some of that is CR9 fault but you are correct with your post. If Messi was so good he should have dont better for argentina, but then again same thign you could say about Ronaldo but Ronaldo is probably the only world class player on Portugal and Messi has a better national team around him. yes maradona is a bad coach, but what is queiroz? failed with the most talented sporting cp team i ever seen, faield with real madrid, and failed already before to qualify portugal to the WC.
for players with the playing style of messi it is unfair to say that he needs xavi to give him balls to score. you could say that for strikers like Klose, Toni or Inzaghi who score mostly one-touch goals, but Messi has shown that he can dribble past whole defences and score.
I'm sick of this. Please watch the goals Messi scored this season and tell me how many of them are a product of Xavi. I know it's cool and controversial right now to swim against the tide and discredict Messi.
Well let's see what he does at the World Cup though. He's been playing for Argentina since 2005 and has only managed: Quarterfinals in World Cup 2006 with 1 goal scored (the last goal in a 6-0 game) Runner up in Copa America 2007 with 2 goals scored Gold Medal in 2008 Olympics with 2 goals scored Not bad, but not really the stuff of "legends" yet either... I mean, Maradona had 5 goals in just World Cup 1986 and that is Messi's count for his entire career in major international tournaments. He needs to pick up Argentina and carry them deep into the tournament and score a lot more goals if he wants to be compared to the all time greats.
"Medical treatment"... You're right though if it wasn't for Barça paying for his HGH pumping & developing him he would not be the "world's greatest footballer"*.
You know that Messi is 4 years younger than Maradona was in 1986 right? Maradona scored 2 goals in his 1st WC82, beeing 22 years old. So we have to wait and watch.
yes, but when you compare messi to maradona, compare maradona at 22. in 1982 wc maradona didnt do much and was sent off against brazil. maradona had 5 goals(1 with the hand) in 1986, but only a total of 3 goals in the other three world cups he played combined (82,90,94) Messi has A LOT of time to improve for argentina (wc 2010, 2014, 2018 and maybe even 2022)
These videos seem like they're about a past legend, not just a 22 year old. (Also, the whole story about the hormones, and how good he always was.) [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvzKByLqlSM&playnext_from=TL&videos=Y0qmzeysPW4"]YouTube- The origins of Messi (1/3) + english subtitles[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzo1v0ummqc&playnext_from=TL&videos=Baw7svsjqBU"]YouTube- The origins of Messi (2/3) + english subtitles[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC9Ij_sm5Gc&playnext_from=TL&videos=SAn8PzLXtkU"]YouTube- The origins of Messi (3/3) + english subtitles[/ame]
He was a sub in 2006. Didn't even come in against Germany. He didn't play much. I wouldn't even count that against him. 2010 will be the first real test.
I keep hearing this. How many times did Alfredo di Stefano, arguably the greatest player ever, do that?
Well yeah, but Messi has won 2 CL titles and is in the semis with the favourites for a third. And he's 22 years old. Unquestionably the World Cup is important, but it's maybe 25 games in a career of 500+
Which is what I'm saying. But Messi has more than enough opportunity to prove himself at a WC. He's 22 now. He realistically has maybe another 3/4 WCs in him, and he's fortunate to play for a nation in Argentina who not only are very likely to qualify for every tournament, but are genuine contenders to win as well. Moreover he has the stability at Barca which gives him the platform for sustained greatness.
That's great without a doubt .. it's really hard to judge a player if he's still active and so young. He has still a LOT of time and the potential.
The World Cup can be unfair, but it's actual purpose in the sense of this thread is to serve as a "controlling factor." I personally don't buy the Xavi makes Messi great nonsense, but the World Cup takes out many of the systems and factors that make a player great in one context. So you see how players react in different situations. An example is Van Nistelrooy- I didn't think he was that good until he started banging in goals for Real; he wasn't a by product of Manchester United and succeeded in multiple systems. The ultimate example of course, is Ronaldo, who put up Messi numbers in four leagues and two continents; it became perfectly obvious that it didn't matter who he played with, where he played, who the coach was, or what the system was. To me, that's the difference between a great player like Messi and really good ones like Raul and Maldini, who spent their whole careers with one really good team rich enough to surround them with anyone they liked and complement their skills.
I think winning helps make you a legend, but to me whether he wins the cup is not as important as how well he plays. In Copa America 07, Argentina didn't win but Messi had a very good tournament and scored two spectacular goals. For an up and coming 19 year old, it was an excellent tournament, regardless of Argentina losing to Brazil in the final. On the other hand, recently Messi has been a bit below form for Argentina. I don't think we can say that Messi is not a great player unless he wins the World Cup, that is ridiculous. But at least for me, I think to validate his greatness I want to see him play well in South Africa. It doesn't mean he's not great if he doesn't perform, but I think a relatively poor effort will raise some question marks, as the 82 WC did for Maradona. But, as Diego did back in 82, Messi still has lots of time on his side
Maldini is an uber legend beyond question. He played at the highest level for 20 years and won everything in the club game and performed beyond question with his national team. Him and Raul are in different leagues.