Do we need a new coach? Your opinions here.

Discussion in 'Korea' started by WuTang2002, Oct 11, 2002.

  1. WuTang2002

    WuTang2002 Member

    Mar 13, 2002
    Bundang, Korea
    Is coach Park the only one to blame?
    I do think he's partly responsible but not as much as what many of you and the media are saying.
    I think our social system of killing creativity is to blame.
     
  2. jamisont

    jamisont Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    first its KFA's fault, hiring unexperienced coach for national team.
    Park has no experience coaching a team all by himself in any level.
    so basically he is anywhere near proven coach.

    Good thing Park did was not blaming players for loss unlike Huh JungMoo.
     
  3. Hyok

    Hyok Member+

    Sep 4, 2002
    California
    Keep Park

    I think it is too easy to blame the loss on the coach, but people forget that this is the U-23 team that lost to the U-19 team. Could it be that this team was not as talented as people would like to believe?

    Also, Lee Youngpyo should never have missed the PK. It is one thing to have the shot blocked, but he completely missed it. Also, Lee Donggook could have made his shots on goal during regulation. Is the coach responsible for that?

    As for Park's inexperience, I see that as a positive. He is perhaps not as tainted by the system as someone who has done the time. I think he showed real class by shielding the players from criticism. He really showed me something.
     
  4. jamisont

    jamisont Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    Only reason KFA tried to hire Park as coach is that he is relatively cheaper than any other proven coaches.
    but Park didnt fall for that trick and demanded fair price for national coach job.
    the result, KFA refused to sign him.
     
  5. Arlyn Jayde

    Arlyn Jayde New Member

    Sep 6, 2002
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    I think...

    I think that the Korean public and the fans had every right to expect their team to go all the way through to the finals, even win gold.

    But they had no right to think that the gold medal was already theirs from the start of the tournament. I sense that there was a little of that going on.

    I agree that it's unfair to expect the same thing out of this U-23 side with VERY minimal preparation (three weeks) as the World Cup team, who was prepared for two years under a very experienced coach.

    And Park Hang-Seo shielded the players from blame, which earns him my respect.

    Lee YP and Lee DG both made misses that probably cost them their place in the finals, but I don't think blame should be laid on any individual's shoulders.

    That's just my two cents, anyway...
     
  6. jamisont

    jamisont Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    just Lee YP missed PK.
    It looks like Park will remain as headcoach..at least till Olympic.
     
  7. kerpow

    kerpow New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    As an outsider looking in it seems that South Korea has great ambitions in the football world. The national team has exceeded everyones expectations and really put themselves on the map by their performance in the WC. The infra-structure is all in place from the WC stadia and there is a solid fan base aswell. The difficulty is keeping the momentum going. The situation is almost identical to the USA at the moment. Soccer has rapidly gained popularity but there are concerns that interest will slowly peeter off. Is 10 teams enough in a league? Are there enough facilities for young children to play and receive coaching. Will the media continue to promote the sport?

    Both the J-League and the MLS have tried bringing over the hill European players and I hope this doesn't happen to the K-League. The more cynical fans will quickly read between the lines and take it as an insult that Mr. famous footballer 3 years ago is happy to receive a lucrative contract and sign autographs for a year or so.

    The national team does still need another foreign coach but one that is prepared to hold the reign for at least 2 years. Preferably past the Olympics and onto the World Cup in Germany. They also need to put in place an expienced team to guide the youth deveolpement. Ideally they should send a couple of young coaches or ex international players to study in Europe, complete a couple of coaching badges and even work at a top club for a few months.

    Finally, the age old debate of whether to hold on to the talent or release them to top european clubs. I can understand the advertisers worries that if they leave the K-League the attendances will drop.
     
  8. onemorerevolution

    onemorerevolution New Member

    Sep 23, 2002
    MA
    Problem with Korean football is that Korea is not really a footballing nation.

    The only team that matters is the national team.
    The national team will usually sell out but the K-league draws thousands and there's no club competition at amateur level to speak of.

    There is not one football writer (except that Irish guy who used to write for Korea Times) who can write a decent analysis of a game and overall media quality is extremely low.

    One can find better analysis and opinions from a few dedicated fans who post their messages on bulletin boards and user groups.

    This is what makes their finish at WC2002 all the more remarkable.
     
  9. Almogavar92

    Almogavar92 New Member

    Aug 17, 2001
    USA
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    The Real Problem with Korean Football

    The World Cup was great and we accomplished more than we could dream. We made it to the semi-finals of the modern World Cup..... and then the bubble burst.

    Korea is facing the proverbial fork in the road. We can either choose the path that nations like Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Holland, Germany have taken... that is pursuing the highest level of football both domestically and internationally. Or we dwindle from this 'high' and never arise from mediocrity the way other nations have tragically fallen (examples, Uruguay).

    The appearance in the semi-finals will slowly mean nothing if Korean football doesn't start growing. That means at the club level. NO matter what the national side achieves, without a strong club system with a strong national league in place, national selection success will always be capricious at best. A strong club-league system can only ensure that players of highest quality come off of conveyer belt-like systems from youth academies. Once this happens, there has to be a demand for Korean players. Not just for one or two (as is the case even in the post-2002 World Cup), but en mass (as it happens in Argentina). And the clubs that demand Korean players can't be these provincial minnows in European football (such as Perugia, Reginna, Southampton, Everton, ..yes! Everton is a minnow today! Maybe not in 1985 but it is today). Clubs like Barcelona, Milan, Real Madrid, Man Utd have to come shopping. Everyone is saying that Hiddink is the solution. He's a great man, great tactician and great leader. My respect for him falls just slightly short of worship. But in the overall dynamics of putting our football on the footballing map, footballl has to be revolutionized from the core of the system. We need a promotion/relegation system with divisions of clubs. This is what Korean football needs.

    My negativism may smack of un-patriotic overtones. Not by any stretch of the imagination. As a fan, you have to be tough on your team in hopes that they will be better. I'm not in any way a fan that jumped on the World Cup 2002 bandwagon. I've followed this national side since 1986, crying my way until this summer. But now that we're back on the ground, let's be honest with ourselves. We've come in fourth in the world and third in Asia. We still have a ways to go. And until we get there gentlemen, Korea Fighting.

    "Now we are breathing with them!!!"
     
  10. Deleted Users

    Deleted Users Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Supposedly, there are many quality comments regarding the realistic place of Korean Football and its head coach Park Hang-seo. However, does it actually apply to Korea? Yes, Korea is not a footballing nation and nevertheless, things arent bound to change anytime soon. Creating more K-League teams sounds like an excellent idea but the boundaries of the Korean society has its obvious limitations.

    Regardless of what these plagues are, the subject dealing with Park Hang-seo is absolutely uncalled for. First, it is unethical and secondly, it is almost unthinkable, and the finally, it is inappropriate. Whatever happened to Hiddink's almost-philosophical "My Way" that suddenly urged a sudden reform of the Korean soceity during the past few months? Whatever happened to trust and dependability?

    Apparentely the Korean media haven't changed much. I can remember like it was yesterday when our very own media criticized itself for being so blalant and short-thought. Now, it won't leave Coach Park alone. It just makes me sad when our society cannot be very amicable towards respectable conditions. A Bronze medal at an international competition such as the Asian Games is not a dissapointment. Look at you people! You guys are talking as if we were there to win the Gold without even trying! This team has only been formed for about 3 weeks. Although I do question Park's ability as a head coach, criticizing him- a veiled hero of our miraculous run- only reflects our intolerability and our immaturity towards a yet-to-mature society. Be patient and grow up, hyungs.
     
  11. Arlyn Jayde

    Arlyn Jayde New Member

    Sep 6, 2002
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    My thoughts..

    As another 'outsider looking in', I agree with essvee that Park Hang-Seo shouldn't be the one blamed.

    It's easy to forget that he was Hiddink's assistant coach and that he too had a part in South Korea's success in the WC. Such an achievement couldn't have been the work of one man, however experienced he is. (in this case, Hiddink).

    And again, this national team is not the one who went all the way to the semifinals of the World Cup. It's not fair to expect the same things out of them as what the WC team achieved. I thought that their recovery from the disappointment to win the bronze 3-0 against Thailand shows that they can bounce back from disappointment, and they can still improve so much. With such minimal preparation, reaching the semifinals is quite an achievement.

    Did the Korean public already felt like the gold medal would most certainly be theirs even before the tournament started? I don't know, since I'm not Korean.

    And what I meant with Lee YP and Lee DG missing some chances was that Lee YP missed the penalty, but DG missed some goal opportunities late in the second half. Well, so some of the others. I know DG didn't miss his PK.

    In regards to the KFA criticism of Park Hang-Seo after the friendly with NK, I felt that Park had every right to be displeased with KFA putting Hiddink on the bench without consulting him first. I can't imagine how that must've made him feel.

    How can you do your job as head coach, when everybody around you is making it clear that they consider you second-fiddle to the great Guus Hiddink, and that you're only there to fill out his position until he returns? (Which we're not sure he's going to do, anyway).
     
  12. Almogavar92

    Almogavar92 New Member

    Aug 17, 2001
    USA
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Media criticism is nothing new. It is the hallmark of other footballing nations and an indirect channel for a team or coach or even player to see what consensus exists. Media pressure isn't something that should be snubbed. Is the media merely to be a "yes-man" applauding every defeat in the same manner a victory is applauded? Given that the media goes overboard when it lashes out at coaches, but I ask you, who is responsible for a team's defeat? Ultimately it is the coach's responsibility. In Italy, Giovanni Trapatonni is being pressured to resign and you can find such demands being made in both Gazetto della Sport and Corrierre della Sport.

    Criticism of the coach and team is something to be stopped? If we don't criticize lackluster and half-a$$ed performances, won't the team be fixated in a delusion that they are performing on par? Isn't that the mediocrity that has dominated our television sets come World CUp time since 1986 up till now? Did we deserve to win the Asian Games gold medal? I don't know if we deserved to win it... but seeing that our team had five players from the World Cup while other nations were fielding their U-21 teams, I thought we had a good shot. You seem to suggest that win or lose, applause should be given in good spirit. I disagree. My criticism of the national team isn't an indication of my 'fair-weather' support. Like I said before, I followed this side since 1986. My criticism of the team comes from the desire to see them reach even more unprecedented heights. Will we forever live on the legacy of finishing fourth? I don't know about you, but I would like to see Korea go for the cup before I die. Am I expecting too much? Yeah, maybe. But why not.

    You want to know what's wrong with Korean mentality and Korean thinking? Once we achieve something that moderately resembles success, we're a people that become very VERY complacent. If our kids get into Seoul National, or Yonsei, do they continue studying to the potential they showed in high school? No. They f$%k around the following year. This is only one example. Our football can follow that same sad pattern. Fourth in the world is great considering that we never won a game once in the World Cup. But if we don't stick to the 'reforms' brought about by Guus Hiddink and regress into that pathetic form we were condemned to watching from 1986 to 1998, then Korean football doesn't have a hope in hell. Football development has to outlive Hiddink.

    In regards to this coach, just keep him on until the Olympic Games. The time between now and then is only 2 years in which we don't have a tournament worth hiring someone else. I'm sure Hiddink is likely to return and until then, just keep Park as a quasi-interim coach.
     
  13. Chachi King

    Chachi King New Member

    Mar 14, 2002
    Everyone in here is right.
     
  14. Deleted Users

    Deleted Users Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Almogavar,

    So are you implying that just because criticism plays a legitimate role, its ok to dogg on coach park? Although media criticism is always useful the validity of it is usually questionable. Whether or not its constructive or negative criticism, don't u think it's a little bit too early? Just my thoughts.

    - sv -
     
  15. Hyok

    Hyok Member+

    Sep 4, 2002
    California
    I agree. The media wants to sell magazines and newspapers, not improve state of sports. Sure harsh criticism is a hallmark of some footballing nations such as Italy, but their hysterical media actually hurt the team many times, I think.
     
  16. Almogavar92

    Almogavar92 New Member

    Aug 17, 2001
    USA
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    My commentary has nothing to do with the media in Korea. My commentary evolves around the entire state of football in Korea and this complacency that perpetuates once we do well in ONE tournament. But I will offer my opinion about media criticism. If the media doesn't offer criticism, then by what medium will the team learn of any consensus about their performance? Given that many papers and writers criticize beyond a reasonable measure. Many of the writers have no experience as footballers, but then again, do we members of this forum have any experience in playing international football? It's just that our opinions don't amount to any value while the writers in newspapers and sports dailies are being paid to write what they observe. In a way, the media reflects the sentiments of the public. I can't imagine Koreans were delighted with the loss against Iran. So the media conveys this. Yes, they overstep their bounds when they go out and hunt for scapegoats, but if I'm not mistaken, your proposal to silence the critics and invalidate their opinions doesn't serve a better purpose.

    No, I don't believe it's fair to criticize the coach excessively. The whole team bears responsibility in the defeat to Iran. Is the team obligated to win everything in sight? Of course not... who would dare be bold to make such a claim. But if the coach isn't responsible, who is? Isn't a coach or manager hired to formulate the tactics of the team, to pick the right players (even in penalty kicks), train the players for a tournament..etc? I would rather that the papers and mass media paid attention to the performance of the national team, and yes, if there's excessive criticism, it's better than just pretending that no problem exists. Finishing third is not a problem? Especially when we were the hosts? The next two years is pivotal in deciding which proverbial path we take in our football. Koreans have to wake up from this illusion that we can play like sh~t and then work a miracle by hiring a foreign coach. It happened once, on home soil in amazing circumstances. Finishing third in the Asian Games, no matter how positive we try to construe it, is regression and not progression in the right direction. If the media is the only outlet for criticism, so be it. What other outlet would there be? Boycotting the games? Hardly. If you see this as being harsh, I accept it. But great teams aren't formed because they have a self-congratulating audience behind them. They're formed through trials, tribulations and criticism.

    The hiring of Park was not thought out, contemplated or carefully calculated. It was done almost like an after thought. That doesn't excuse him from performing to the expectations now set by the national team in the 2002 World Cup. It is his fate, his misfortune and yet his challenge. It isn't his to question. It is only there for him to either meet it, or for him to succumb to it. There's no way around it. I wouldn't scapegoat him as the only responsible party for this defeat. I won't pat him on the back either. He's got work to do. He can't forever live off the World Cup legacy set by his predecessor. If he does, he's living on borrowed time.
     
  17. jamisont

    jamisont Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    one thing is clear, football journalists in Korea dont know anything abaout football.
    Even they admited they were just switched from other department like entertainment, or politic.
     
  18. Deleted Users

    Deleted Users Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Almo,

    Yer right.
     
  19. WuTang2002

    WuTang2002 Member

    Mar 13, 2002
    Bundang, Korea
    PARK did get the axe!!
     
  20. Hyok

    Hyok Member+

    Sep 4, 2002
    California
    Wow, really? Where did you hear this?

    If true, I think the decision is silly. What if the draw was different and Korea played Iran in the finals? Assuming that Korea still lost on PK in the finals, would that have been acceptable? Geez.
     
  21. Almogavar92

    Almogavar92 New Member

    Aug 17, 2001
    USA
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    "What if" is Speculation

    And if Korea had been drawn with Brazil, Germany and Turkey in the 2002 World Cup and we had been eliminated without a win, would it have been acceptable if instead of deifying Hiddink we had tried to physically crucify him? It probably would seeing how our national temperment is so capricious when it comes to results. This is the life of football gentlemen. Park lost the gold medal. Henceforth the axe. It's as simple as it gets. Now if he had lost a friendly and gotten fired, then it would be a different story. But that wasn't the story. Neither was this hypothetical in which we lose to Iran in the final on penalties. We lost to them in the semifinals.

    Korea has to try to graduate itself from the days of the World Cup. It's the post-Hiddink world and the faster we realize it while living up to the standards that we tasted back in June, we'll move in the right direction. Until he comes back in 2004, we need someone who'll at least keep as at par with our performances in June.
     
  22. Blue and White Army

    Mipo Dockyard
    Oct 14, 2002
    Toronto
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Hahah

    This shows how stupid the Korean Football Association is.

    They expect a new guy to win an international tournament two months into office?

    Farcical...
     
  23. Chachi King

    Chachi King New Member

    Mar 14, 2002
    Re: Hahah

    Then again it WAS the Asian Games tourney.

    No disrespect to the Asian Games, but Iran ain't Brazil and China isn't Italy.

    I had more of problem with bringing Hiddink back in 2004 and using Park as merely a stopgap more than anything. It is very immature for the KFA to expect Hiddink back and very stupid for Korean fans to expect Hiddink's return. We should have hired a full-time coach instead.
     
  24. jamisont

    jamisont Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    Re: Hahah

    well it will be idiotic decision if they hire another korean coach.
    I wanted park to be sacked so they would hire proven foreign coach.

    anyway Park needs some more experience to be national coach. he never had any head coaching experience before.
     
  25. crom80

    crom80 New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    most koreans didnt believe the gold was ours to start with.. (except those dumb HS girls who think lee chun soo can walk on water)

    most ppl thought since the achievement at the WC that to PROVE our worthiness as the top 4 at the WC we MUST win the gold (not we already DID win the gold) and winning the gold will be only par to what we were to expect IF we were to prove ourselves.

    but anyone would know that this team certainly isnt the WC team

    only Lee Woon Jae and Lee Yong Pyo had any serious minutes in the WC (and Park Ji sung after group games) Lee chun soo was a back up half the times and Choi tae uk and hyun hyoung min barely played.

    also the lame Lee Dong Gook and one eyed blind Kim Eun joong were the strikers (Kim eun Joong only shines cuz he plays for Daejun where there are NO good players... and his team is DEAD LAST with only one win...)

    I believe they should have used Lee Woon Jae's Wild card spot for an attacker. Even Woo Sung Yong could have played better than Kim Eun Joong.

    i honestly never expected a bronze.. i thought ATLEAST Silver myself... but i guess we all had our heads in the clouds somewhat

    but the assesment that we were thinking we HAD the gold before the games even started is just wrong



    as with the coach, Park did nothing wrong i think. He did more than we thought he could do. Not like the team lacked in strategies or the team made huge mistakes in defence....

    only the players were to be blamed IF there is a need to point to someone, and even Park himself covered for his players

    I personally think Lee dong gook screwed our gold
    and he has to go to the army for that
    no sorrow for him from me

    (side note.. for those ppl asking why i hate Lee dong gook so much.. he used to be my ex's ex and i think he's an AZZWHOle)
     

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