Do British people know what irony is?

Discussion in 'Premier League: News and Analysis' started by superdave, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And that it's not a synonym for coincidence?

    Watching the EPL announcers on FSW, it gets really, really tiresome for them to cite some coincidence as irony, like when they said it was ironic that Bryan Robson was managing against Middlesbrough. Ugghh!!

    Is this a failing of just announcers, or the population as a whole? :confused: ;)
     
  2. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    This is coming from a Yank. :rolleyes:
     
  3. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    It is incredibly annoying. Tildsley is the worst for it though, he think absolutely everything is ironic.

    "How ironic that Rooney scored against Fenerbahce because his dad's mate Ken once went to Turkey on a holiday and caught an STD" is the sort of thing you now expect him to come out with.
     
  4. jumhed

    jumhed Member

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Like that song 'Ironic' written by Alanis Morrisette and an American co-writer, didn't actually have a single example of irony in it. 'Like rain on your wedding day.' That's not ironic, that's unfortunate. What would've been ironic is if you're a Weatherman and it rains on your wedding day.

    And Clive Tyldesley is an arsehole.
     
  5. Pazarius

    Pazarius New Member

    Jan 10, 2004
    England
    Actually, I think you might be in the wrong here.

    Irony has two meanings:

    1) The expression of one's meaning by using words of the opposite meaning in order to make one's remarks forceful

    2) (Of an occurrence) the quality of being so unexpected or ill-timed that it appears to be deliberately perverse.

    Does the visit of Middlesbrough to West Brom for Robson's first game qualify as 'appearing deliberately perverse'? Perhaps in some people’s minds. Even if you don't agree that it does qualify as ironic under the second meaning, it seems to me that the commentator is just exaggerating, not actually abusing language.
     
  6. Dave_M

    Dave_M New Member

    May 25, 2004
    Enfield
    An American questioning the british grasp of irony...

    oh the irony!. Well done sir. Thats made my day :)
     
  7. Dave_M

    Dave_M New Member

    May 25, 2004
    Enfield
    "Its like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife, well isn't it ironic"

    No Alanis, that just fookin annoying!
     
  8. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You beat me to it. Good stuff.

    Yeah, "a free ride...when you already paid"...I think is just getting hoodwinked as opposed to ironic.
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In probably a first in world history, let me, an American, defend us by saying,

    She's Canadian!!
     
  10. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    no, it's a sign of mental illness. What sort of obsessive collector has 10,000 spoons?
     
  11. Mel B

    Mel B Red Card

    Nov 10, 2004
    South Shields UK
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    No. Is it a sheep.
     
  12. Claus KJ

    Claus KJ New Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Yes. But it's a particularly clever sheep named Harold. A most dangerous animal.

    KJ
     
  13. jumhed

    jumhed Member

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Dear Superdave. Yes, Alanis is Canadian. I know this. And I also happen to know that she was living in LA when this song was written, and had been for a few years. Also, I inserted a 'Get Out Of Jail' clause in my opening paragraph, by stating that she co-wrote it with an American. This was wrong. She co-wrote it with 3 Americans.


    'It's like being in a traffic jam when you're already late.' Again, merely unfortunate. Now, if it was a city planner stuck in traffic when they're already late, how we'd laugh! Before dragging them out of their car and beating them like a gong!
     
  14. jumhed

    jumhed Member

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Maybe the Dish. He did, after all, run away with the Spoon. The Bastard. Eyewitnesses said it was after the cow jumped over the moon.
     
  15. jumhed

    jumhed Member

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Or something one makes one's shirts flat with?
     
  16. gwebster

    gwebster New Member

    Aug 30, 2002
    Bethany, CT
    Yes...where did you think steel wool comes from?
     
  17. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    i would contend, if, in fact, irony can be described as the incongruity between the actual results of a sequence of events and the expected results of those events, that having one day's winning of the lottery succeeded not by the following day's euphoria and anticipated spending of said windfall, but, rather, by one's own death, could, quite accurately, be described as 'ironic'.
     
  18. jumhed

    jumhed Member

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    So, would winning the Lottery the day after your death, when you needed the money to pay for a life-saving operation a few days before be ironic or unfortunate?

    A tobacco executive dying of cancer ironic?
     
  19. MightyMouse

    MightyMouse BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 19, 2003
    Island paradise east of the mainland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like cheese, how ironic!!! MY favorite food is cheese yet I hate cows, I just want to kill them and grill them, the IRONY!!! HAHAHA!

    Ok I just had to get some of the stupid out of me...
     
  20. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    by my understanding of the definitions of 'irony' -- which are 1) the incongruities described in my last post and 2) the misuse of words to describe the opposite of what one intended -- the situations that you have described would be merely coincidences, and not technically 'ironic'. unless, of course, one expects tobacco executives to be impervious to cancer (which would be foolish), or if one had anticipated winning the lottery (which would be miraculously prescient) and using it's award to finance said operation. then you would be dealing with genuine irony.


    i don't know who originated the theory that morrisette's song contains no examples of irony (though every time the song comes on, someone always claims it), but there are quite a few examples of irony within it. for example, it may have to be implied that one envisions one's wedding day to be perfect; but once one accepts that implication, 'rain on your wedding day' most assuredly qualifies as ironic.

    don't you think?
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure they just helped with the music, and she wrote the lyrics.
     
  22. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    while I was at my previous job, they had three goes at trying to create a "get it right first time" culture within the company. They didn't see the irony.

    No. In that definition 'ironic' is just another word for unexpected. There's more to it than that.

    it's only ironic if there's a link between the two events which would make you think they are things that wouldn't happen given the link between them.

    Having it rain on your wedding day isn't in itself ironic, even if you imagine it to be perfect. There would have to be some condition attached to it which would make you think raining would be especially unlikely. e.g.....

    Having it rain on your wedding day after deciding to hold the wedding in Jamaica to be somewhere sunny, is a touch ironic, especially if it's sunny in your home town on the same day.

    The only irony with that song is the fact that it's about irony but doesn't contain a single ironic event.
     
  23. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    You can call this what you like, but I certainly consider it to be both ironic and very unlucky.
     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it would be ironic if it rained on your wedding day, after you planned to have it in the desert.

    Or, perhaps, if chick marries guy in order for him to get credit in order to save his farm, which is going under because of a drought. That would be hella ironic.
     
  25. michaec

    michaec Member

    Arsenal
    England
    May 24, 2001
    Essex
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    As tobacco executives spent years denying a link between smoking and cancer, very possibly ironic. I'd just call it justice.
     

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