Do Arsenal need more British Players?

Marty,

Does the drinking culture carry over into the lives of Professional footballers you think?

 

I don't think its the disciplinary problems that turns Wenger off. I think it has to do with English players having an infalted price over their head. If you look at Chelsea right now only John Terry came through their ranks.

All the others were bought and were overpaid. 6 mil for Johnson? He's good but he's only a teenager.

And the only British talent I can see Wenger buy right now is SWP and that's only if Man City gets relegated.

There aren't any British talent out there that Arsenal can afford and that are good enough for this team. I think the best way to have more Brits on the team is through the youth system.

It's looking promising with Bentley, Hoyte, Garry and Smith.

 

I agree with that, but I think there's a little more to it. The last couple of young English stars we tried to bring up, Jeffers and Pennant, have shown a tremendous lack of maturity, as well as a tremendous amount of ego. Just look at what Jeffers (who the aforementioned dwinkler refers to as "Glass Ankles") did at Everton. He doesn't start, so he throws a temper tantrum and gets the boot. I think Le Boss has had it with those kinds of players, so he's more selective. He won't go with a player who's been told all along how great he is and has the ego to show for it. That's why the current crop is starting to get some looks. They're not very well known individually, but collectively, they can be special. That's what Wenger looks for. A group where no one player is bigger than the team.

 

I wouldn't say the problems are more prevalent amoungst Arsenal players. In fact I would say the opposite and thats why we have found out so much re Pennant and jeffers, because those two are the exception. With Chelsea, i'll remind you that John Terry is not such a good boy, plus the 'alleged' goings on in a certain hotel in London last year didn't do the reputation of Carlton Cole a whole lot of good not to mention the Newcastle players.
The likes of Leeds, Leicester, the former Liverpool 'spice boys' all seem to attract trouble. I think it is something that has to be looked at with regards to how the English players get bought up accross the country. There is a huge problem. Apart from the English players at ManU plus Sol and Ashley (and please tell me if im wrong) I don't think there is a single player in the current England starting 15 or so that hasn't been in some kind of trouble. But is it that you don't get that with French, German, Brazilians e.t.c or is it that our press looks for it amoungst the English boys, knowing it will sell papers?

So that would put Wenger off buying English straight away. Secondly, the positions that we have foreigners playing in, well is there an English player that could do a better job if available? I'd have Gerrard or Lampard in the centre alongside Vieria and Beckham on the right wing, but apart from that I don't see any English players who are as good.

 

It was me on the other thread who stated that I wouldn't like to see our contingent of English players reduced any more than the current level. Ideally I would like one or two more, but only if they were of sufficient quality (Gerrard alongside Vieira would be perfect in this regard as I believe he is better than Gilberto or Edu - sorry Coach!). I hope that with the current crop of promising talent coming through (Stack, Taylor, Bentley, Hoyte, Garry etc.) that this can be addressed in-house though.

My reason for the comment was pretty simple. I believe that you need a core of players indigenous to the league you are playing in to be able to compete well in that league. Even if they are squad players such as Parlour and Keown now are, they need to be around. They know what the football is about in the country, how the fans and press react to situations both on and off the field and can help foreign players settle into the team when they fisrt arrive. This isn't an English thing, I'd say you ned a core of Spaniards in Spanish teams, Italians in Italian teams or Germans in German teams too.

 

Ideally I would certainly agree with you, as I'm English and would prefer more homegrown players to play. But if Im honest I dont expect more than 2 of the players you mention to actually 'make it'. I just don't think this generation of players has that much talent in it.

 

Long gone are the days of fielding an all indiginous side. If you want to be competitive you must draw your talent from many locations. Look at the 1st team squads at most successful clubs in all the major leagues except for maybe Serie A. The squads at these clubs are highly blended, oftentimes with the foreign players (EU and non-EU) outnumbering the native players. La Liga has taken note and implemented harsh restrictions on non-EU players in the squad. Serie A has followed suit, limiting transfers of non-EU players to one per season.

I'm not English, (and quite possibly neither are the majority of Gunners fans worldwide--just a guess) so it's not important to me that Arsenal maintain a core of English players. I just want to see good football, and for that to happen on Arsenal's budget, bargains must be found. If Kolo Toure were English, he would have been snapped up by a major British power in a multi-million pound deal before he hit his 20's. Thank God he's from the Ivory Coast and we were able to get him for 170K. In fact one of the things that drew me to Arsenal was the cosmopolitan makeup of the squad. We've got them all black, brown, white and everything in between all working together.

Besides what English players could you actually see getting meaningful in the Arsenal squad right now? Maybe 2 defenders, 3 midfielders, and 1~2 strikers? And all of the British players I'm thinking of are already playing on big British clubs anyway.

 

Well said, Bayou! I really like how Arsenal is with all the different people in it! One day they shall have chinese in!

 

I think Arsenal's cosmopolitan makeup will only enhance the club's image in the eyes of the consumer as we start to compete for some of Real and Man U's global marketshare.

 

Spoken like a true suit.

 

Yeah, I wrote that right after getting out of my managerial economics class.

 

I'd add Wright-Phillips or Joe Cole to your list, but I think the important point that we're all hinting at but glossing over. It isn't the Britishness of the players at issue for Arsene, it's the attitudes. Steven Gerrard, for instance, is an incredibly good player. He's also a real arse, and hardly the sort of player who fits the Arsenal clique. Shaun of course is a wonderful player and would fit the team, I think, but is completely unavailable; besides, Arsene has no interest in him.

I'm from the Colonies, of course, and therefore talk much trash about the Poms, since many of their worst traits have a mirror in my own country. In both England and the USA, there is a definite culture of Fame and hero worship that simply doesn't exist in France, Germany, Brazil, Portugal--pick your locale. My humble opinion is that this affects attitudes among entertainment personalities; particularly it increases egotism and personal vanity. Actors are the obvious example. Egos in that profession in the US and UK are massive indeed, and the constant subject of gossipmongers in the press. And while true this is certainly the case in Russia or Germany, the press there are quite different and do not feed the public image creation nearly so strongly.

Sportsmen are also part of this. Expectations of them are no different from those of actors. Unfortunately those expectations are far from the origin of sport as "gentlemanly exercise" so preached by the Brits. Booze, women, and every indulgence is not only accorded them but expected of them, and indeed is sold back to American and British publics as part of the image for marketing purposes. No wonder the poor lads get lost (cf. George Best, who probably cast the die for this sort of nonsense).

The English footballer has, roughly, the same stature as an American basketballer. And the attitudes are roughly equivalent. I submit: David Beckham and Shaquille O'Neal. Two more loose media whores could not be found in the cosmos. Or: Wayne Rooney and LeBron James. Overhyped and just past puberty--or maybe not quite--the same obnoxious and self-important attitude prevails among them both.

Granted, not all English footballers (or American basketballers) are like this. But how many of them are 1) of sufficient quality, 2) of sufficient maturity, 3) of sufficient availability?

Give them time. Unless they're named Jeffers.

 

Hi Marty.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I live for the day when the manager, his coaches, the trainer, the back room staff, and all 20+ players hail from within a 5 mile radius of Highbury. But until that glorious day, we'll have to make do with what we've gotten during the Wenger era - amazing soccer and no embarrassing incidents off the field.

Seriously, though, with Arsenal making the ascension to the ranks of World Class club, it follows that we need World Class players. And until the English FA pull their heads out and build the much-needed national training center, instead of blowing all their money on Wembley, I don't think, as a generalization, that English players are going to be good enough to play for Arsenal. There are exceptions, of course, and I'd hate to see Ashley Cole leave.

Oh yeah, and the players absolutley have to do something about their lifestyle choices - pathetic and embarrassing in large part. While Kolo Toure goes to pray after practice, and Reyes is in bed by 10 every night, you constantly hear about some of the terrible choices being made by England's talented young players, whether it's the downright criminal or the merely stupid.

England deserves better than what they're getting from their young players. Their best move, of course, would be to hire Wenger, not as the national team manager but as the head of the FA. That'll never happen, thank God, but such a move would signal a dramatic change in its attitude towards soccer for a country that's in desperate need of one.

 

The analogy between English footballers in the EPL and American 'hoopsters' in the NBA is dead-on. I think it's one reason (besides talent, etc.) that more and more Euros are drafted early by NBA teams.

 

That sounds pretty harsh... what about David James... or Paul Robinson if you prefer... the Liverpool players... (pub going and the like surely doesn't count)... correct me if I'm wrong of course

 

David Bentley will make his breakthrough for the first team next season. Just you see and wait. Wenger is really high on this kid. He's extremely skillfull and has great vision. When he makes the breakthrough for us next season, watch the England national team look dumbfounded that they should have took him to Euro2004 first team. The current England team really likes skillful players...Bentley will be their savior.

He is the next Bergkamp and will make the England first team next season as a 20 year old. I look forward for him to impress in the under 21 European championships this summer. I'm sure Wenger will be watching.

 

wasn't david james part of the "spice boys" at liverpool with fowler, mcmanaman, et. al.? and weren't they a little wild?

 

That may well all be true and I hope it is, but weren't England knocked out of the U21 championships?