Division 3 - 2019

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by CoachJon, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. C13soccer

    C13soccer Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 30, 2018
    The tone of this ^^^ is dead on. As the OP of the Weil news let’s review what we know and what we don’t.

    As previously stated, we know that the lack of coach quote in the release that this was involuntary termination. And we know, based on a very good year by most colleges standards, it wasn’t his win loss record this year or any other that led to the termination. His lack of Final Four appearances compared to peer teems may be the performance factor that doomed him - but that’s just my guess.

    The fact that the press release was longer than two sentences and filled with generous praise of his tenure tells us there was no law breaking behavior or “me too” incidents as both of those would have morphed into a much shorter and sterner notice from the AD.

    That leaves a handful of options for the reason, NONE OF WHICH necessarily say anything about him being a bad guy. Other than the lack of College Cup appearances, it could have been a Hopkins policy infraction, it could have been a philosophical difference with a new AD who had seen him in action for 3 years, it could have been team requested as it’s not a stretch to think that a man pushing 80 may no longer able to connect with 18-21 year olds, and speaking of age - it could be mental acuity related.

    None of those reasons point to Weil being an a$$ of any kind. Just another coach who didn’t meet his boss’ standards, one way or another.
     
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  2. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    I will put another possibility out there. Happens now and then in D3, maybe smaller d2s as well. Seen this a few times over the years.

    The school makes the position Full Time but the current coach likes it part time as they make good money doing some other day job. Often these folks are in the local school system making 80K+ and so don't want the college gig full time for 40 or 50K. They'd rather hire an asst to do lots of the recruiting and office work for 30K if the boss allows for that. This could easily have been the case at Catholic, or certainly a factor for JP as that is his exact situation and they even mention it in the release. He actually can't afford to coach at Catholic full time.

    In the Hopkins case, it may be that Weil has actually retired from another job and getting paid FT at JHU is just not in his financial interests, could jeopardize his pension. The reference to the "off field experience" of the players is interesting. Could be that they just wanted more of a full time coach and didn't want him coaching on his terms any longer and it lead to a disagreement.

    I'll go ahead and say I bet I nailed it - although total speculation admittedly. Why we have forums!
     
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  3. PowerSoccer

    PowerSoccer Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    Hopkins has been full time for a long time. Don’t think that’s the case there. More likely the new AD is competitive and wants her own people in there. Thinks the program has potential to be a power and wants the person who can guide them there. Simple as that.
     
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  4. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, a coach at that level is pushing 80? I am stunned - seriously. I'm not close to pushing 80, although perhaps it depends on the age from which you're evaluating my age, and I guess some would say "close." But I coached high school tennis for almost 20 years and decided to stop because I felt I'd aged out. Again, seriously. I simply got too tired, coaching the way I wanted to coach, and I wasn't willing to coach at a lower level. And, it's not that I'm no longer physically able. I still get plenty of exercise and play serious tennis. But putting what's needed into coaching at a high level? No way.
     
  5. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As nearly as I can figure, Leo Weil is 74 years old (he was cited as being 47 in a 1992 article about becoming coach at JHU). 74 is not, I repeat not, “pushing 80.” Most folks recognize that humans ‘wear their age’ in widely variable ways, however, at some point, decline can be unexpectedly rapid, even given a prior very high level of function.
     
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  6. C13soccer

    C13soccer Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 30, 2018
    hahaha....ok...I rescind my “pushing 80” quip and replace it with....

    “in less than a year he will be closer to 80 than 70”

    Are we good?
     
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  7. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In that case, and agreeing that different people "wear their ages" differently so with that qualilfication, my experience would be exactly comparable to Weil.
     
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  8. C13soccer

    C13soccer Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 30, 2018
    Heard From a Friend of a Friend Disclaimer to lead off this post - a parent on the Hopkins squad says it was a combination of factors:


    A failure to advance deep into the tourney was what drew the AD’s attention over the past few years. On closer inspection the AD realized that compared to peer schools and to the other head coaches at Hopkins, there was little to no active recruiting by Weil - by example, he was loath to attend (nor send assistant coaches) to any ECNL showcase events, even PDA in the spring just a short drive away in NJ; by comparison, MIT/Chicago/Williams/Carnegie etc are regulars at those ECNL events.


    But the last straw was mental acuity related...he had to be retrieved from his office several times by players as he forgot there was a practice underway...he attempted to sub-in players who were under medical restrictions and had to be reminded by trainers (who report to the AD) that they were no-go’s...and most bizarrely, following a Hopkins policy change in August regarding employees-only allowed on all team buses, he chose to NOT ride the bus with his team on any away games this season so he could drive his wife to the games.


    In short, he lost the team’s confidence.


    If true, then we can assume the offer to submit his retirement was made and by the tone of the press release, he refused it.
     
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  9. ytrs

    ytrs Member+

    Jan 24, 2018
    I can support the statement that he rarely left campus to recruit.
     
  10. Socalsoccercoach

    Dec 1, 2013
    C13soccer had all correct down to not traveling on the bus. Still doesn't excuse the fact they should have given him a better send off.
     
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  11. MFF1910

    MFF1910 Member

    Sep 11, 2018
    I had players who were interested reach out to him and were told he only recruited from his camp, he wouldn’t be coming out to watch them play at the big showcases.

     
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  12. C13soccer

    C13soccer Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 30, 2018
    They offered one, he obviously (and irrationally) refused it. We know this unequivocally from the tone of the release statement. As further proof, he was inducted into the Hopkins Hall of Fame last year (which was probably was the first hint he missed). They let him stay on to get his 400th win early this season and made a big deal about that for him. All signs point to the AD and the school trying to do the right thing here.

    He chose the send off he received by contesting the inevitable. I don’t blame him for that as one of the first symptoms of cognitive degeneration is the self awareness that you have a problem at all. But make no mistake, once he contests the forced retirement, the AD has no other options.
     
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  13. PowerSoccer

    PowerSoccer Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    All fair points. The next question is who takes the job?
     
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  14. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    #239 Eddie K, Dec 16, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
    That is a good take from C13 but I would not jab Weil about recruiting so much. I saw him speak at a college panel for a club just this past year and he was great. He said at JHU now, a 1500 SAT is an 'auto admit' for recruits. If a kid gets a 1400, they might get admitted but he tells them to keep trying. Those are crazy numbers and once this knowledge gets out, you have to almost allow the players to 'self select' your uber academic school and use things like ID camps to sort through them. This school is recruiting nationally and they don't really give much merit aid. Like the Ivy's, if you can pay, you pay. So, going to any youth event and saying "who here has a 1500 and can pay 50K" isn't all that productive. Even with these numbers, coaches at some of these schools won't even recruit certain Majors as they are so rigorous. Now, did he work as hard as coaches at the other top 3% academic d3 schools?? or in the conf or other JHU coaches?? ...I guess that's the issue but...

    As I said before, they were just in the NCAA quarterfinal and have been in the NCAA Sweet 16 for 8 of the past 10 years! Always a top-25 team. If the bar is higher than that for the next coach.....good luck.

    About that next coach - these schools are all about pedigree. No state school coach is getting it, even from a good D1. The Dickinson coach is a Hopkins alum and I'm sure already has his resume in and made several calls. there will be tons of applicants from every corner. Note that JHU has never really hired a women's soccer coach! I hope they are careful.
     
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  15. C13soccer

    C13soccer Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 30, 2018
    You are right, it may not have been recruiting. Referring back to my third-party-parent info, recruiting came up only after the AD saw that Weil was underperforming in the tourney vs their peer set (CMU, Chicago, Williams, MIT, etc). All of whom have the “1500” problem you mention. And all of whom regularly and ACTIVELY recruit beyond the standardized (and antiquated) On-campus Summer ID-camp.

    For arguments sake, let’s say it wasn’t recruiting. Then it must have been actual coaching. If he’s not being faulted for getting the best possible players available to him given the academic and $$ obstacles, then his lack of final four appearances must be related to his inability to coach those top level student athletes into the final weekend of the season. Because his peer group gets there a ton, as do his fellow Hopkins coaches in other sports.

    Looking at the Learfield Cup Standings from fall 2018, Hopkins had a 2nd, 3rd, 9th, and three 17th place finishes nationally to be the Cup leader. This fall, two titles, two 3rd places, a 5th and a 17th. It is fast company amongst the Hopkins herd of coaches, and a 17th and a 5th puts you amongst those gazelles with limps.

    So whether it was coaching or recruiting, it was his position amongst the stragglers that initially caught the AD’s gaze. Once those other issues were uncovered, she had no choice but to remove him before an unfortunate incident occurred.
     
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  16. Socalsoccercoach

    Dec 1, 2013
    The Dickinson coach or the current assistants are the best bet for the job but it will get some good applicants from top coaches even outside of D3.
     
  17. C13soccer

    C13soccer Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 30, 2018
    I think Ivy League assistants are a good pool of candidates. They are familiar with recruiting for high academic standards and no scholarships.
     
  18. SoccerSwattie

    SoccerSwattie Member

    Oct 17, 2016
    #243 SoccerSwattie, Dec 17, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
    But what about the soccer? The Ivy league WSOC games I have seen have displayed a lot of kick ball and this includes Harvard and Yale who have the most decorated recruiting classes. I have not seen the teams of the relatively new coach at Brown as she went undefeated in league play and won a first round game (upset!) at the NCAA D1 tourney but I suspect the new AD at JHU is looking for a very talented coach...
     
  19. SoccerSwattie

    SoccerSwattie Member

    Oct 17, 2016
    @Eddie K I do not believe it is as random as perhaps you imply. All of the academic D3's and the Ivy's have the exact same issue. Here is how I believe it does and should work. The kids from "feeder schools" to the Ivy's and the academic D3's often have good soccer teams and good academics. The prospective players from such schools already have an idea of their competitiveness for each college. The prospects email their soccer resume which includes their grades, SAT/ACT scores as well as the name of their school. The coach can then see from the resume if the player/prospect has a shot at getting past the admissions committee and can then schedule to see the players at various showcases where he can also encourage them to attend his camp.

    At Harvard and Yale I also know of kids whose combo of grades and scores were not high enough but the college coach encouraged and rooted for the player/prospect to retake the tests until they could obtain a qualifying score.

    Weil's peers all recruit and visit showcases. Against the standard set by WashU, U of Chicago, Emory (other large research universities in D3) etc it appears his efforts fell short even though he achieved some success in the NCAA Tournament and dominated the Centennial Conference.
     
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  20. SoccerSwattie

    SoccerSwattie Member

    Oct 17, 2016
    #245 SoccerSwattie, Dec 17, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
    Seems to me the Dickinson coach would be a no brainer but can they poach from the conference and would he leave after such a short tenure at Dickinson and is he too close to Weil/previous regime?
     
  21. SoccerSwattie

    SoccerSwattie Member

    Oct 17, 2016
    I would imagine they will look at the assistants from WashU, U of Chicago, William Smith, Pomona College, Williams, Emory, MIT, Brandies, Tufts, Carnegie-Mellon and Messiah...
     
  22. PowerSoccer

    PowerSoccer Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    Maybe a D1 HC looking for the security of a job like JHU? Retirement job.
     
  23. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    The Dickinson coach would go in a heartbeat! And JHU is looking at Head Coaches from these kinds of schools, not assistants! Yon at CMU would be a good call to make. Hopkins can easily outspend any of these schools.

    Regarding Admissions, I think many of us know the deal. These coaches aren't fishing. They are looking for superstar academic kids who can play. Many of these kinds of kids do "self-select" and reach out to uber academic schools because they believe they can gain admission. Or someone advises them. The big secret is - what colleges are allowing for special admits for women's soccer? Many do, even the Military Academies, but not Hopkins. Among these kinds of kids, maybe Weil didn't work as hard as other coaches but really folks, what is the standard? Elite 8 and 8 for 10 Sweet16s is not good enough?? Academic All-Americans every year. Top-25 every year.
    If the expectation really is higher than that, I think that's just crazy. Who would bet a dime any coach, Dorrance, Swanson, Jill Ellis, Frey, Wilber, anyone, is going to definitely win a National Championship if they coached at Hopkins?

    I've been around for many years and I can tell you - the impact of the coach is over-rated! Listen to Weise talk at Georgetown. Seems like a great coach but he's been there 15 years. Want to bet anything of value they'll def win another one? How about CMU getting to the Final4 again?

    Z at Dickinson is not so rooted and is prob shopping for a Federal Hill rental already! Yon could want to leave while the leaving is good but we'll see. It's not as easy as it looks folks. Weil wouldn't be leaving if there weren't some issues there and that's the first question the new coach needs to get answered. What's really been going on.

    btw- Weil was just this past year also coaching a club team. Not many head coaches of top 25 teams doing that in any division.
     
  24. Socalsoccercoach

    Dec 1, 2013
    I would assume any of the top 25 D3 coaches would consider the job...obviously the strongly rooted ones aren't moving but the others will certainly apply.
     
  25. SoccerSwattie

    SoccerSwattie Member

    Oct 17, 2016
    #250 SoccerSwattie, Dec 17, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
    Most of those coaches are not as talented and certainly not as successful as Weil...that's the conundrum...Allow me to submit that maybe 10 coaches in D3 are better than Weil...Messiah, William Smith, U of Chicago, Williams, Middlebury, WashU, Pomona, Emory, Tufts, Dickinson...there may be a lot more who are better communicators, more personable, stronger command presence, warmer and fuzzier but not many with better resumes or more success in the NCAA tourney...please correct me if you see otherwise...my opinion is only based on the teams I have seen play...
     

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