...unlike the buses full of Salvadorans brought up to Foxboro from New York. You obviously don't have anything to add to this search, so my guess is you are you trolling for a fight. Do you have anything productive to add to this search? ...I didn't think so.
Now THAT is funny. LOL! Do you even know what you are are talking about? I supposed they should stop having WCQs at RFK, since were outnumbered there half the time too. I think the US vs Panama match was one of the FEW times its was largely a pro US crowd, and thats only because the Panamanian population here isnt very big. But oh wait, I forogt, we wont have to worry about anymore WCQ's at RFK anyway thanks to Major League Baseball.
I am VERY busy. I have been pulling 16-17 hour days of late and that will continue for another 2 weeks. But this is important to me. So I find 20 minutes to post. Nobody is angrier about this than I am. Fonsos insisted on receiving the Flag and cutting other reliable fans out of the loop, on this and other team support issues leading up to the Poland game. Without his help it will be very tough to find it. I will tell you what I know that leads to this conclusion. I have been involved in getting the Baby Ass Flag from place to place since Ed arranged to buy it as a replacement for the original, which he donated to the US Soccer Hall of Fame. These flags have enormous emotional significance for me and many other US fans. After Ed obtained the new Baby Ass flag, I arranged for its first cap by getting it from Ed and shipping it to Guy Gayle for the Wales game in San Jose. Guy sent it back to Ed, and it began its journey around the world following our national team. My wife allowed me to carry it to France last year, even though she was 7 months pregnant at the time and we were toting a 13 month old and baby bag. She knew how much it meant to me and I guarded it like it was my own. I also took it to the Paraguay game in July, 2003 and sent it back to Ed after that. I nagged a lot of people so it made it to games in Florida, Dallas, and elsewhere. As usual, the small network of dedicated Sam’s Army, US Supporters, North Jersey Brigade and others came through, and the flag made it on time. It was not shipped from Dallas to Chicago. This is how it got to Chicago. Monty, of the Midnight Riders told me it was in Columbus with Matt Bernhardt. A Big Soccer Moderator, fidlerre, expressed a willingness to carry it to Chicago for the Poland game. I knew fidlerre to be a reliable Keeper of the Flag. He had carried the Sam’s Army Banner to and from Amsterdam. He had requested the flag but got the banner by mistake, which he dutifully sent along to the next venue for our national team. So I suggested he handle it. Jjayg, who is a friend of fidlerre, was going to be in Columbus for the Fire game the week before the Poland game and offered to bring it too. I don’t know jjayg that well but I think he is a very dedicated and reliable person, like fidlerre. I figured we would be in good hands with these men. It turns out that fidlerre knew Matt so that was an additional level of comfort. Meanwhile, I contacted Monty again and suggested a handoff of the Flag to a person from Boston so we wouldn’t be emailing each other 4 days before the next game and running to the UPS office, like we usually do. Monty, another reliable and dedicated fan if there ever was one, put me in touch with Reed Swanson, who I knew from fan organization efforts on the ground in Korea. Everything was set. Then Fonsos insisted on handling this. He contacted Matt and told him to send it to him. I thought: “oh no!” Fonsos had insisted on controlling many aspects of the “planning”, telling people he was the “lead coordinator” and saying he “was pulling rank”. I understand Fonsos received the flag from Matt 48 hours before the Poland game. I was in email contact with Ed before the Poland game and I had hoped to get the Big Ass Flag here. But Fonsos had made it painfully clear that the only way you could get any flag into the stadium was with his permission, secured through security at Soldier Field. There was no way I was going to ask for the Big Ass Flag without clearance beforehand. I ended up taking my own 3 x 5 flag to the game still in the dark. Details related to flags had still not been announced the day before the game. It was a blessing in disguise. At least the Big Ass Flag did not get lost. I have been to zillions of national team games and Fire games in Section 8, but I did not know who Fonsos was. I was introduced to Fonsos at the Barn Burner tailgate who I introduced to Reed Swanson, who agreed to take the flag from Fonsos. It is my understanding Reed could not locate Fonsos after the game and that is the last I heard of the flag. I think it is wrong to blame jjayg for this. If he and fidlere had handled this, LIKE WE HAD ARRANGED, we would not be having this discussion. People dedicated to this patriotic cause never had any trouble keeping the flag safe. The trouble started when people like us were kicked aside and told to obey orders and write reports. I hope people keep this discussion civil. I would also like to know WHO APPOINTED FONSOS LEAD COORDINATOR. Nobody will tell me this, but this person should get involved in this because they also bear some responsibility for this fiasco. If the local coordinator had been any one of 15-20 people we would not have had these problems. Just my opinions.
Liam, Fonsos told me in an email he was not an employee of the Chicago Fire. Are you referring to the Chicago Storm? People who have worked so hard to build support for our national team should not have to "wait awhile". We have already waited 3 months. I asked Ed if he would organize a replacement and he said he would, but I totally agree with his anger. Why not find the flag instead?
I will chime in once more and say that I remember the events exactly as Thomas has recounted here. I did indeed gladly volunteer to carry the flag from Columbus the week before. To me it would have been an honor to carry that flag. I was told that my assistance was not needed as other arrangements were made which was fine with me. I just wanted to have the flag at the game, just like everyone else. If the flag came through Fonsos and he claimed responsibility then it's pretty cut and dry that he is the one that needs to be contacted. He is currently doing some merchandising work with the Chicago Storm. His email address according to the Storm website is amitchell@chicagostorm.net I would suggest that the person who is trying to receive the flag contact Fonsos and question him directly about this. It's probably not a good idea for 20 different people to start hounding him either. The idea is to find the flag and get it on it's way and not to place blame and cause a confrontation as brushing sands did initially. I truly hope the flag will be found. I wish that it had gone through Fid and myself to begin with so we wouldn't have this problem. I also hope that the idiots who want to blame Chicago and Section 8 or any other group of people realize this entire situation is the result of ONE persons lack of responsibility and doesn't reflect on anyone else other then that ONE person.
There are numerous posts in this thread to which I could issue an excorciating response, but as the thread progresses I hope those of you who simply shot the messenger will reevaluate your position. By the way, I don't represent Sam's Army. I'm not a member of Sam's Army. Although I make significant personal investments that benefit the Sam's Army brand, I do so of my own volition. Because my first allegiance is to the United States Men's National Team. I have had and maintain severe disagreements with the way Sam's Army conducts business. I was kicked off the Sam's Army Elders email list after being on it for less than a month back in 2001. The reasons why are not relevant to getting the BabyAss recovered, but the fact that the Sam's Army leadership does not consider me one of their own, and yet I'm taking negative rep for starting and continuing this thread, should speak volumes about the issue at hand. This is about the United States National Team having a large US flag at every Hex fixture. It is entirely probable that if the BabyAss is not recovered, all of the road games, and possibly even a home game, might be without a large US flag. As a Citizen of the United States that is unacceptable. As a Patriot, I'll do what I can to resolve the issue, even if it means taking negrep from fellow Citizens who would rather shoot arrows than support their Country. -bs
I never placed any blame. But you are correct that the idea here is to find the frickin flag and be done with it. Maybe so. I agree with you. Only time will tell if other US supporters in other markets come to the same conclusion. -bs
Brushes Sand, Any attacks or negative rep that you recieved were most probably solely due to your absolutely horrendous attitude and the negative manner in which you have undertaken this task. The task is an honorable one and there are plenty of people who support the true topic of this thread which is to get the flag back where it belongs. I think you should take a step back and try and read every post that you made in this thread and perhaps (if you have the ability to do any self evaluation) you will realize that it was your confronational attitude that stained your reputation, not the task itself. I did not neg rep you dispite that you accused me personally of being a irresponsible, a theif, unpatriotic, and dishonest. These accusations were made from you to me, a person that you know absolutely nothing about without any basis whatsoever. My advice, which you will most definately ignore completely, is for you to take a deep breath, get off of your high horse and learn to treat people with respect until they have given you just reason not too (as you have repeatedly).
Just a correction. While this "Baby" likely has been to France (Confed Cup), the original Baby - the one I took to Trinidad, and others took to Azteca, Dublin, and Korea, is now at the Soccer Hall of Fame. This is a replacement Baby. As to the Dallas/Chicago bitchfest... Carry on...
That's not the Baby, that looks like a standard 10x8 flag. The other one in DC was the 60x30' Big-Ass Flag, and not the 20x30' Baby Big-Ass Flag.
You're getting negative rep because of your handling of the issue, not for starting this thread. Until it is verified that the flag is lost, relax and let those who can, do what they can to, track it down. Don't try to be a martyr. We're all just as interested as you in locating and passing on the flag.
Let's start with the facts: 1. Brushes Sand is acting like a dick in this thread. Stop it now. Quit being an accusatory ass. 2. The 20x30 Baby Big-Ass Flag is not the property of Sam's Army. It has never been the property of Sam's Army. It has never been in the control of Sam's Army. It's caretaker is Ed Kirwin of the North Jersey[/] Brigade, a U.S. supporters group not affiliated with Sam's Army. It is also the second flag to carry the name. The original was retired after the World Cup 2002 and shipped off to the Hall of Fame. 3. The Big-Ass Flag - seen in pictures in this thread - is a 30x60' monster that was purchased by Ed Kirwan off of eBay after soliciting PayPal donations here on BigSoccer. -------- Traditionally both the Big-Ass and Baby Big-Ass Flags have been carried around the country and world by a loose coalition of supporters. Obviously, the Baby - assuming Tree was joking - is currently misplaced. It would be nice if folks who were involved in the Chicago effort would ask around. It would also be nice if Brushes Sand cut the rhetoric and get off of his high horse.
And it's been done. We have 2 facts that are clear... 1. Fonsos was in charge of the flag. It was sent to him for the friendly. 2. JJayG took time after the game to fold the Baby Flag up since Fonsos was no-place to be found, and put it back in the box and then it was given to someone with US Soccer. Someone needs to call US Soccer in Chicago and see what they have to say. Edit : I just e-mailed someone I have contacted previously about another matter at US Soccer and hope to hear back from him soon.
It would also be nice if someone who is downtown would go over to 411 South Sangamon and kick Fonsos in the butt and suggest he either return or replace the missing flag.
And all other prior attempts and methodologies to recover the missing item have resulted in .......... nothing. Nada. No flag. No progress. No public disclosure of information. I really appreciate 1871, Flannigan, JJayG, Fidlerre, all of whom have come out with data. You, and they, may not like my method. But in my repcount on this thread, i'm now at 33% positive, 66% negative, whereas this morning rep sentiment was running at 100% negative.... I'll apologize individually to everyone who negrepped me or negposted me, regarding my methodology, if/when the babyass is recovered. Until that time, I stand by everything I've posted herein. Leaders lead, even if their methodology pisses people off. Good lord, I sound like a Neocon. -bs
No offense "leader" but a select few have been working on this for months. Don't take credit when it isn't yours to take jackass.
brushes sand, its funny that you are calling the chicago fans unpatriotic, when you refer to the flag as "baby-ass". i think it is highly unpatriotic to call the flag "ass" in any sense. and i gave you a negrep and it was for your tone. i dont appreciate it, and no one else here does. if you would have kept your tone down i bet you would have found the flag by now. i really hope the flag is found, but the way you are going about it is completly inappropiate.
Instead of coming onto the Chicago board as an ASS, you could have just posted a thread asking for help. Take the chip off your shoulder.
Regarding the name of the flags, you'll need to negrep half of bigsoccer who used the term in print before me.... as if I named them that way. Right. In addition, a half-dozen posters have now used the letters A, S, and S to label me and/or my methodology in this thread. You will note that I have not used vulgarity at all. ..... If a replacement 20x30 flag is going to have to be purchased, that can't happen overnight. In order to speed up the process on Kirwan's behalf, I undertook this thread, because the item in question either needs to be recovered or declared unrecoverable. At what point does one determine that "playing nice" is no longer a viable option? Everone here believes it is. Fine. Negrep me for stirring the pot. And take credit when the flag is found. -bs
I will see him this evening and will ask about it but I already know what the reply will be. I would do more legwork myself but a) I don't care a lot, frankly; b) I don't have a car to do all the running around that would require; c) I am busy enough with my job, job search, school affairs, freelance work, and Chicago Fire-related supporter activites which is very much my priority.