Discussion of religion on WR

Discussion in 'Customer Service' started by Guy Fawkes, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    This discussion, and the rule, arose because of a reported post by a third party. But that doesn't fit into your theory of "Umar's mad about me because I shattered his world view and told him things he's never heard a million times before", so you'll probably choose not to believe that.

    With regards to selectivity in deleting posts, I deleted other posts after your comments too. I left ASF's post there because he is a mod and so I afforded him that privilege.

    Again, I assume that this can all be checked by Admins and I wouldn't just lie about something. But you can continue to believe that this is all about me being angry at you.
     
  2. NMMatt

    NMMatt Member+

    Apr 5, 2006
    Fair enough. Like I said. I made that assumption when you specifically called me out after referencing then deleting my post.
     
  3. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The picture of Mohamed? You can delete it, he's ugly anyway.
     
  4. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is it about atheists on message boards that makes them whine worse than Pat Robertson with a full depends?

    Jesus I'd hate to have beliefs so fragile that you have to march around the perimeter of your collective self-esteem like an army of Travis Bickel clones, preventing phantom incursions at every turn.
     
  5. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    This.
     
  6. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    You see, that's the thing. Why should a coupla nuts dictate what's "sacred"? What if there's some guy who worships Gary Glitter and believes he's a prophet and that the book he wrote is "holy"? (I don't think Glitter even went as low as muhammed did anyway). So the Glitterist should be afforded the same rights, according to your rule.

    There will always be religion-bashers, and definitely pedo-haters. It's hard not to be indignant over that subject, there's really nothing more appalling than that. What you should've done, a long time ago, was make a rule that no one can announce if they're religious or not. Don't ask-don't tell. Cos a religious guy will always be called out sooner or later.

    So good luck on suppressing people's opinions, cos this is a subject that people don't like to sweep under the rug, and understandably so. All I ask is that you guys bin and not infract if the shit hits the fan. But if a religious guy attacks a Canadian for being plastic, the Canuck should have the right to retaliate on the attacker's religion.
     
  7. Dignan23

    Dignan23 Member+

    Jul 6, 2001
    Fort Vancouver, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Indeed. But there are people of every religion and non-religion who fall into that category, unfortunately.


    Dammit, now you have me reading Customer Service on a regular basis. Unacceptable.
     
  8. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.” Bill Buckley said that and it can also be applied to atheists. What you said plays both ways, and an argument based on science is just that an argument. Science isn't always exact so what gives you a right to decide who's a nut and who isn't? Are all people that believe in god nuts or just the religious ones? Why are your beliefs more important than that of someone else?


    Is this the best you can do? Comparing a Glitter fanboy to an institution of faith and beliefs that go back ages?

    Nobody is trying to suppress your opinions. If you want to have an intelligent discussion about religion and atheism or even the agnostic view then go to the appropriate sub-forum. The problem is that damn near all the discussion on religion hasn't been intelligent, it's pretty much been bigotry in nature and that just isn't okay.

    We will definitely bin, but as for the infraction part of it, the posters control that as much as we do.

    Nationality has a direction connection to football and world rivalries to where religion not so much.

    For the record, I am not a religious person. I take a more agnostic approach and in the process chose not to shit on what is important to a whole bunch of people.
     
  9. NMMatt

    NMMatt Member+

    Apr 5, 2006
    Bill Buckley was about the last intellegent "conservative."

    Obviously deciding who is a nut is an opinion. Atheists aren't saying that religious people shouldn't get a fair hearing, rather that their beliefs shouldn't be considered off the table as far as criticism.

    For example. The Jewish Old Testament describes a supreme being who instructs his chosen people to commit numerous acts of genocide. However, when pointing out this sort of fact, rather than argue about it, so often religious folk throw their hands in the air and scream bigotry or that you can't question their beliefs because they are sacred.

    I agree that World Rivalries is probably not the place for it, though if nationality is on the table, it obviously includes culture and religion. The point is if you are an English football fan and make fun of Germans for their genocidal Nazi past, that is fine because Nazi-ism was only an ideology, not a religion per say. However, why then is it bigotry to point out that the Jewish and Christian religions were founded by a genocidal character? Same with Islam when it comes to sexuality and violence.

    Nope. It's the religious people who want two sets of rules, not the athiests.
     
  10. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh trust me I know.
     
  11. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I'll definitely agree with that.

    As well as what a nut is.


    I have no problem with criticism, especially in the proper forum. I can also distinguish between criticism and provocative and attacking. In the context of WR, religion is a dead on thread killer as well.


    You really don't want to get me started about the Orthodox. What's the point in arguing about it though? I think most folks are somewhere in the middle in which they either don't know what to really believe and some are spiritual/faithful but keep it to themselves. I really don't worry to much on the nut jobs on both sides. Believe me, atheists have a lions share of the whackos.

    And that says it all right there Matt.


    Culture and nationality have always had a connection within the context of smack talking in football, religion hasn't. I'm pretty sure there is a reason for that.

    Okay but when was the last time you can think in which a German poster or supporter was attacked with the Nazi angle? It hasn't been tolerated in some time Matt.

    What about those of us in the middle that are still either sorting it out or simply not fanatical just faithful? Whether it is bigotry or not is going to be determined by why and what you are seeking to accomplish by making that point and how you go about doing it.


    Are you sure about that?
     
  12. NMMatt

    NMMatt Member+

    Apr 5, 2006
    Criticism is often provocative and attacking in nature. Calling an entire nation ignorant and stupid is no less provacative and attacking than calling religious folks the same. It is an attack to call Brazilians trannies. So is commenting on the sexual deviancy of a culture that allows 9 year olds to have sex with adults such as Thailand. Religion itself is what makes it somehow more provacative in you and our other mod's book as best I can tell. So if you called the pope a tranny (with his effeminate clothes) or Muhammad a pedophile (with his 9 year old wife), all of sudden it is over the line?

    If not, maybe you can spell out the difference for me with some better examples, because I don't see it. I just see your side arguing that there is some kind of difference.

    Nationality and culture is a dead on thread killer as well.

    But neither do ethnicty and culture if it is going to be about football only. They probably don't have a place in World Rivalries either. Of course you'll never be able to clean that up. Hell, you'd probably have to get rid of the "stupidest post thread." So no, religion isn't going to go away either, but I guess now you have the cover to punish as you see fit.

    Bullshit. Religion has always been a part of culture. And it has always been a part of World Rivalries. It's always been kosher when Americans are labeled ignorant religious fanatics. Most of the time religion comes up when there is a difference or when religion is a significant part of a culture. So when Koreans are attacked as "dog eaters" or what have you by Iranians, what are they supposed to come back with? Iran's culture is obviously closely tied to its religion. So is Israel's. Even the US to some extent.

    Last summer during the World Cup. I remember because I did it among others, lol. It doesn't happen often because we don't have many German posters and despite the stereotype, they tend to be able to take a joke.

    My view is they give cover to the fanatics. Course that is my opinion.

    Absolutely. In the context of World Rivalries, I think most of our atheist posters would prefer little to no rules. It's the religious folk who are claiming that religion should be off the table while nationality and ethnicity should remain as fair game.
     
  13. Guy Fawkes

    Guy Fawkes Member

    Nov 22, 2006
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I always regarded WR as having the following as the number one rule:

    NOTHING is sacred.
     
  14. Cool Rob

    Cool Rob Member

    Sep 26, 2002
    Chicago USA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So after reading through the thread, I assume this means we can still make fun of atheists and their ultimately meaningless existence devoid of both soul and metaphysical perception. That is, LOLs re their consignment to utter nothingness.:p

    I mean they can’t argue atheism is a religion, right?? That would be an incontrovertible paradox of staggering proportion, very similar to the true nature of post-modern human hubris, the contradiction of being blessed with consciousness and the ability to comprehend yet electing via free will to achieve a pathetic destiny of oblivion and void.

    I can go either way with this- really I just like writing pretentious stuff.
     
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  15. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    I have no idea what you just said. But I think I'd like to ban such talk. Or at the very least consign it to Pseuds Corner in Private Eye Magazine.
     
  16. Corporation X

    Corporation X Member+

    Sep 9, 2009
    Suckmydickastan
    We usually go with how despite their trash talking Iran can't even make it to the WC or a quip about their excessive body hair. Might throw in a crack about camels and rug weaving.
     

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