It's funny, in the press release they named most or all the candidates...and I knew of almost all of them. I don't follow NCAA per se, but I guess I know more about it than I thought. My problem with NCAA (going off topic for a second) is that they don't produce finishers. Defender, yes, lots. Midfielders, yes. But top of the line finishers...is there a single NCAA forward that left the NCAA and started at forward in MLS right That's why I cannot get jazzed about NCAA players yet. When MLS teams can draft the top goal scorer in NCAA and count on him starting, then NCAA will be more interesting.
Jason Kreis only played one year in the USL after his college career. And that was because MLS hadn't started yet. Of course, he didn't play forward until after a couple of years in MLS. Chris Carrieri in his 2nd year. Not many, however, I think you're being a little unfair in that there are a LOT MORE high profile foreign players signed as forwards. Add to this the fact that teams only play with one or two forward formations. This makes it very difficult for a young college forward to get a chance to develop into a pro MLS forward. And remember, the already experienced as pros, high profile foreign forwards, as a group, have struggled as well. And rare is it that one has two or three excellent years in a row. Also, some of them take awhile to adjust to MLS play before they become effective.
Look at Luchi Gonzalez He won the Herman Trophy right? That's the MVP of college soccer if I'm not mistaken and all he did was rot on SJ's bench...he got something like 45 min's of playing time this year, and then for his troubles got waived. He had a decent amount of hipe to him. I'm quite suprised that Dallas passed him up in the Waiver Draft. One would think that they might try and tap into the local market that way. "Local Hispanic College hero makes it big with home pro team." Just a thought. But I guess we have too many forwards...Kreis (injury prone), E. Johnson (not there yet), Cerritos (injured for final third of the season), and Rhine (As many games as he played he only got 7 goals...and he got a hattrick in one meaning he only scored in 5 games).
He got picked up somewhere, right? But I think my point remains: no forward comes out of NCAA and stars in MLS. The fact the forwards tend to be foreign in MLS is precisely becausee the NCAA does not produce finishers. Why would someone pay Ariel Graziani to do a job Knox Cameron could do? Essentially, that's when NCAA can be taken seriously. When they graduate US forwards that can go straight into MLS and start. And that may never happen. Will it ever happen? Or is NCAA so fundamentally flawed that they will never produce a rookie/first-year starter at forward?
I'm not taking up for NCAA soccer. However, regarding your logic here, you are basically saying/asking "Is the NCAA so fundamentally flawed that they can only produce players in nine or ten of the eleven starting positions in MLS. That actually sounds more positive than negative, but you are stating it as a negative. Also, you are asking too much for a "rookie forward". Even the "star" foreign forwards we bring in usually did NOT START for their foreign teams when they were rookies either. A number of American forwards that have started in MLS were NOT rookies when they first started in MLS but WERE ex-American college players. Twellman, Mathis, Wolfe, Ante, Wynalda, Joe Max-Moore, Bobby Rhine, Jason Kreis (didn't start at forward in rookie season), Cobi (he has played forward in MLS), Cunningham, Roy Lassiter, and Dante Washington would be included in this group. Also, some of our foreign forwards, like Wolde Harris, played at American colleges. There was a University of Portland forward who played on U23 and U20 teams that went I think to Germany. He was a tall target type forward but I can't remember his name. His college coach was also his U.S. coach. I don't totally disagree with what you're saying, but I do think that you are NOT looking at it realistically. An interesting side to this conversation is that lately the seemingly better young American forwards are not going to college. Examples: EJ, Quaranta, Buddle, Barclay and Donovan. And as I recall, the first four WERE all drafted. So, putting the NCAA aside for the moment, the draft itself, can bring a young "potentially" talented forward to a team that might start or even be a star "sometime in the future" if not right away.
The challenge/problem for players like Knox is that Ariel is already there. If Knox got drafted by San Jose he would be facing these players for only two starting positions: Donovan, Ariel, Barclay, and DeRosario. And you're complaining that he probably won't start his first year, and that this is proof that the NCAA sucks.
Do you know how he is doing? Isn't he the player on the U23 Olympic team that got playing time over Donovan? I believe this was not looked upon favorably by some fans.
Casey was signed by Dortmund and loaned to Hannover (Cherundolo's team). He got a good half 2nd division season but only subbed in very limited time so far in first division. He got injured just a while ago.
Well, I don't know if it's a credit to MLS or a rip on NCAA that the entire Division I and Division II soccer structure cannot produce a single foward than can start straight out of college. But I take all your comments well; it's a lot to ask, and eventually they do start, once they get MLS fit and MLS acclimated. I look over the NCAA seniors and think "man, what if the Burn could pick up a good 22 year old forward that could put up numbers." And then, I I look at Bobby Rhine, and then I look at Carrieiri, or Tennyson, and think that the NCAA draft is no way to find a finisher for next year.
I agree, but then you never know when an exception might come along. The odds don't seem to favor it though. I think the Burn would try to "discover" an experienced forward if they decide they need one. IF Cerritos can come back 100%, and Eddie improves and his 'tude doesn't hold him back, we should be all right at forward. I don't like the approach of trading for a forward with another MLS team that has decided they don't want one of theirs. If he is any good and doesn't bring baggage then why are they wanting to trade him? I think we might just be taking someone else's headache from them.
Actually, yes. The biggest reason that I've heard on San Jose's late season and playoff slump is team unity/chemistry not being like it was. Watching their games closely I was seeing little situations between Graz and others. I believe Donovan and Graz are a bit on edge with each other. Donovan makes passes to Graz that Graz doesn't make to him. Also, a couple of times when Donovan took legitimate shots there was Graz bitching at him for not passing to his highness. Remember, we thought he was great at first but then started seeing the team chemistry problems he was causing. Also, I'm not too high on what seems to be available, at this time, at forward in MLS. Each one has question marks like injuries, not getting on with coaches and fellow players, questionable desire, high salary with low production, etc etc. I might feel different if a forward was available that was productive and without baggage. But as I was saying earlier who's going to trade one of those! And, Graz brings plenty of baggage with him. And actually, I was concerned when we traded him. As it turned out we got a much better defense, better team chemistry, but no offense late in the season ??!! I guess we came out equal at least. But to tell you the truth, I don't like his attitude and I don't really miss him because of that. It's more fun to root for guys that are good, are team players, put forth a good effort, and are likable.
I agree 100%. It's also good practice to put a team on the field that has one or two stars (that includes, say, one latin star, and one American star) who will bring in a marketability - and a 'bunch of guys' that equal 'hard work' and chemistry. There are a variety of 'fans' 'out there', and while it's nice to be able to put a 'team' together that 'soccer fans' can pull for, it's also critical to have that/those star(s) that attract the 'proverbial kid' who wants to grow up to be 'just like him'. But, of course, when you're dealing with a league that's still in its infancy stages, it becomes a 'whole different story'. Give MJ credit for doing what he has done so far with personnel. I'm really enjoying the prospect of having a couple of 'blazing fast' wings - starting next season... and, I'm a big Ronnie O'brien fan... those two factors put together are reasons enough for me to be a 'fan', and, with the great mixture of latino players, as well as a Mexican born star (I truly believe Chivas is now a star in the MLS) on our team - I'm very hopeful this will translate into a great growth pattern for Texas MLS soccer, and a loyal, celebratory fan base. .
so if graziani was a headache, what was cerritos? why did SJ give away their top scorer? (i am new this season so insight is appreciated.)
That is a complicated question and probably only one Yallop can answer. Suffice it to say Cerritos wasn't producing like they wanted, and Graziani is a great talent... Worth a risk one can assume. The Burn cleared some cap and got a pick in addition which they traded to Clb for Bonseu... as well as getting rid of a chemistry question.
Good players who play hard and are nice guys? See the Texas Rangers about that.Never got them a championship. And that is the bottom line isn't it?
No, I thought KC sucked when they won a championship because they were a complete BORE. New England botched up the MLS Cup with their DULL play this year in that game. In other games though they were more interesting. "It's more fun to root for guys that are good, are team players, put forth a good effort, and are likable. " Burn 2002: As far as your NICE comments above. What I meant is likable to us and teammates, but NOT always to the other team. The word nice was not used because a soccer team needs to have some bite as well as talent to win a championship. Also, I don't think all Ranger players are nice nor are they are they all known for playing hard all the time. Pitching is their problem. I'll take a player or two if they are naughty rather than nice, but highly talented AND if they play hard AND preferably naughty to the opposition rather than to their teammates, AND if they can be a difference maker in winning a championship. But, only if we can't find as good a player with a better attitude. In soccer and basketball, teams that play TOGETHER are more likely to win championships. Baseball is more of an individual game and is a very poor example to compare to soccer. You have to look at the trade outs in each different situation. Graz didn't win us a championship in 2001, and without a better defense would not have won us one this year. So, in this case I'll take a better defense with a team that played as a team over Graz with same results or worse and all the BS he brings to the table. You see, it's all relative and each situation is different. One statement, one approach, or one word can't cover all situations. Some flexibility is key. Anyway, we've talked enough about Graz. We've beaten that subject to death. The results of that trade are clear: more team balance, more defense, better team spirit, less scoring. That's it for me about the Graz. Let that dog lie to rest. The King (Graz) is dead -- long live the King (EJ). See, the more things change the more they may seem the same. :>)
Tell us exactly what YOU saw. How often. How many times. Tell us your personal experience with him to back up what you say about him.
I thought it was widely acknowledged around here that he was a brat. Maybe Buzz can give some more insite to that comment.?
I've been around Johnson about a half-dozen times after games. My kids like getting autographs from the players, and Johnson's one of the few Burn players they tend to steer clear of. It's not like he's hostile really, but while the other players generally have a smile or pleasant expression on their face and don't mind chatting with the fans, Johnson wears a blank, "I couldn't care less" look and never says a word to anyone or acknowledges the fans. Who knows. Maybe once you get to know Johnson he's actually a pretty good guy. But I haven't been too impressed with what I've seen of him so far, and at least for now, he's a bit of a brat in my eyes.