This is true; so far we have seen things as the Castrol Index (basically the OPTA index) where his 1986 World Cup in peak shape ranks very marginally, in the decimals, behind other historic top performers (Eusebio 1966, Cruijff 1974, with Ronaldo 2002 on top by 0.01 margin). So there might be an unfortunate surprise as well - although you never know with the intimidating masses around, out there to influence the reality. "I was in front of a room with 400 journalists, including many South Americans. The atmosphere was hostile. They felt they were being targeted. In the days that followed, I got bodyguards to protect me against threats. It was a nasty episode. You cannot deny that side of Maradona, but I prefer to remember the good days and the beautiful memories." (source 1, source 2) This stands in contrast to someone like Platini, who derailed that way after his playing days. If you look at the doppelgangers tool, for more transparency, it's easy to see a few others were not *miles* behind in the eventual algorithm, how an algorithm might not create an enormous gap: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/diego-maradona-1986/ Call me biased but while 1986 remains the best World Cup tournament performance to me, with the best artistry (at sometimes very poor pitches), I do think others are in that same category and tier. Both Eusebio and Cruijff played against better opponents (per average Elo; more than 100-150 points difference) and with the key opponents - Belgium, England - not missing key players for the organization (rather: their own team missed crucial players and saw injuries arise). Brazil in 1966 and 1974 was not vintage Brazil, but their defensive level and cynicism actually was above their 1970 and 1982 levels, and Brazil was even #1 in the Elo ranking in 1974 (at the start of tournament, and moment of playing them during the tournament). Both players created or scored goals against each of the (classic) elite teams they encountered (Hungary, Brazil, England, USSR in 1966; Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil and Germany in 1974). It's not their fault their team-mates missed some big chances they created in the games they lost. Furthermore, the fouling was already quite bad then. (category 4 fouls are the heaviest fouls, the endangering fouls) Indeed, FIFA actually introduced the red card for 'brutal fouls' in 1982, and also announced the anointed superstars will be protected better, so that they don't exit the first round so easily. "The 36 arbiters for the World Cup World Cup matches are strictly instructed by Harry Cavan, Vice President of the Fifa and Chairman of the Referee Commission. Cavan emphasized that the arbitrators must ensure that the players strictly adhere to the rules and that the referees need to take the top players to extra protection." Referees to stamp out violence MEXICO CITY. Monday: Referees in the World Cup finals will be under strict orders to protect the game's artists from violent or cynical fouls. "Referees will take firm measures in this Cup. We will not permit stars being stopped from playing," Mr Harry Cavan, a vice-president of FIFA, the world governing body of soccer, said yesterday. "The undertaking was aimed at reassuring players such as Brazil's Zico and Argentina's Diego Maradona, who still complain about how they were systematically obstructed and fouled during the 1982 World Cup in Spain."But Mr Cavan, chairman of ElFA's referees' committee, admitted that his biggest problem was getting match officials to interpret Rule 12 on violence consistently. "There is nothing more irritating for star players than to have exactly the same foul lead to a caution in one game and yet be ignored in another," he said. The 36 World Cup referees, who come from every continent, begin a two-day course here tomorrow aimed at preparing them for the intensely difficult job ahead. Five players were sent off in Spain including Maradona and there were 99 bookings, but many observers felt that too few sanctions were imposed, not too many. Perhaps the worst unpunished foul came when West German goal-keeper Harald Schumacher charged recklessly into France's Patrick Battiston, knocking him unconscious. Mr Cavan said the referee in that match maintained that he had not seen the foul. "But that incident will certainly come up in our training course as the type of thing that must stop," he said. Mr Cavan answered cautiously when he was asked whether a worse level of violence was accepted in Latin America, which has four teams in the 24-nation finals, than Europe in intercontinental encounters. "Don't forget it's a difficult thing to bring uniformity to world football played in 150 countries with 150 different cultures," he said. He confirmed that it would be illegal during this World Cup for exultant players to leave the field after scoring a goal, thus provoking the passions of spectators. "You'll see players applying the brakes when they reach the touch-line," he said. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/garrincha-overrated-dribbler.1984542/page-3 It will depend on how it's done (WhoScored gives a high value to dribbling), but for now the OPTA Index indeed placed the 1986 campaign very highly - just not a whole tier higher (Ronaldo 2002 a few decimals higher is of course incorrect, and is insensitive to opposition/defense quality). Who knows how it will be when not being in absolute top form, or in the continental competitions.
⚽ Diego #Maradona est-il le plus grand footballeur de tous les temps ? https://t.co/cYeOymCVqj #Football— Le Figaro (@Le_Figaro) November 27, 2020
Can you post it here , what's written there? They don't show the full thing in the article . Requires paid subscription.
@Vegan10 0:10 How many more of these quality Pre assists did Maradona have in 1980 for argentinos juniors It was already a productive season at a historic level 43 goals+20 assists in 45 matches For club and country it was 50 goals+26 assists in 55 matches in 1980 and he was voted best player in South America And if Karl Heinz Rummenige is the competitor in Europe He is simply not a competitor Diego had 1.38 goals+assists per game in the 1980 calender year as a FW/playmaker But the true extent of his influence is arguably much greater than this This is a 1gpg player with arguably(if not defintely)5-6~ dribbles avg per match 5 times avg tackled per match 0.5 assists per match 3~key passes per match Great crossing stats probably too,good defensive skills for a forward(1-2 tackles per match possibly Easily easily he would score 8.7-8.9 on whoscoreds algorithm This is speculation without concrete data but i can't imagine anything less(at least not markedly) I don't know about napoli but in 1980 and 1981 he was that player I could even ask you vegan what was the role of Maradona for argentinos juniors and Boca sometimes he looked like a winger,sometimes a second striker sometimes even a deep lying playmaker For some perspective Messi 2011 calender year scored 59 goals+36 assists in 70 appearances for club and country: 1.35 goals+assists per match https://messivsronaldo.net/calendar-year-stats/ Messi 2012 is more of a finisher imo and perhaps not at his absolute peak dribbling anymore Maradona was already a elite scorer,playmaker and dribbler at 20 years old His starting point was where 99.999% of professional players don't reach That Maradona 1980 did everything on a football pitch Even crawled on his hands and feet and still scored 2:55
Opta index is completely different than Castrol index. Castrol used Opta data but rated differently. Samething to Whoscored or something similiar.
Messi dedicates his goal to Diego, a Newells shirt with number 10. Also a hand of god in the first half.
Wrong. Whether you like it or not. It is a modification of the Opta Index, where also the place of the action counts (both dribbles and misplaced passes; where a lost duel close to goal counts for more). It is certainly not "completely different", it is a further 'refinement' with the pitch divided into more zones. Source here, by someone who is absolutely not wrong.
Sadly I can't access it anymore (only the twitter comments and the user comments below the article). But will see later.
Which castrol index you mean though?? The one that used to produce some orderings during the WC and Euros? Their calculations/metrics seems to be very weird and bad. Often producing hilarious results . -Pirlo was not among top 10 players of Euro 2012 , but Arbeloa Marchisio were among top 10 -Forlan was something like 87th best player of the Wc 2010 -Ramos and Capdevilla were top 2 players in WC 2010 There are many more examples like this
Maradona vs. Brazil in the 1980 'Mundialito' is probably the most impressive performance I have seen of young Maradona. Absolute prodigy; it is literally unfair that a player born this talented could also, as luck would have it, be born a devastating super athlete to add. At his best, Maradona was like an extremely one-footed version of Riquelme and Hazard rolled into one goat-tier player... The ball retention artistry and expertise of Riquelme, and the dribbling and physicality of Hazard, with the personality and leadership of the one and only Maradona; a more complete player than Messi, to put it simply. Actually, what I find crazy about Maradona's legacy, is that he arguably under-achieved, given his extraordinary talent... For reference, what Maradona did in the Copa America and UEFA Cup was good, but surely not even close to goat-tier level? In this regard, Maradona's legend is heavily built on World Cup 1986 and his form with Napoli in the early years; season 1984/85 and 1986/86, after which he declined. But logically, it cannot help the myth of Maradona, when an underrated Argentina side won both Copa America 1991 and Copa America 1993, without Maradona; when Maradona was very much still young enough to have made himself the unequivocal Copa America great. At any rate, I have never been particularly impressed by the (arguably) moderate reach of Maradona's body of work after World Cup 1986, but at the same time, I think this also serves to demonstrate the underrated intelligence of the fans, in terms of how and when said fans identify true greatness in a player; even when said elusive greatness lasted for only 2 years at the very top level (e.g. not that different from Ronaldo Nazario's 2 years at the very top pre-injury), after which Maradona was basically no better than Francesco Totti in his prime, etc. But regardless, football fans tend to be very good at identifying true greatness, and these past few days were further evidence of that; passionate and moving tributes for the one and only Diego. What a great life he must've lived, even with all the lows; that is the player he was, and even though he was far more flawed as a person, that is quite probably the life he lived.
My reply was for gauging the idea how such player will rank in these metrics as WhoScored. I didn't bring it up myself, that subject. Carlito did. As for your examples, it is well known the algorithm is less good for defenders. That there can be anomalies. Take away the defenders of WC2010, and we see two unsurprising names on top: Sneijder, Villa. Pirlo in 2012 is hurt by the final itself; he was the top ranked player for the semi final specifically in the Castrol Index. In WhoScored he is 6th for the tournament (i.e. not close to the three best). And again, for midfielders it is less discriminatory. Of course it cannot be the final word, and I mentioned myself Ronaldo 2002 as a possible anomaly, but my reply was specifically about the idea how someone would rank there in WhoScored. Additionally, everyone knows it is less perfect and discriminatory for defenders and midfielders (rather than forwards or borderline forwards). For euro 2012 we have actually the WhoScored ranking at hand.
Its not wrong. Here is castrol 2014 XI Opta XI 11 - Check out Opta's Team of the World Cup 2014. Stars. pic.twitter.com/MOLnhOmZKk— OptaJean (@OptaJean) July 14, 2014 Castrol just used Opta data like Whoscored but their ranking were weird.
But who was the greatest of them all ? To add fuel to the debate many sources around the world have revisited that discussion. Rtve Deportes (Spain) Maradona, the greatest among the greats? The death of Pelusa reopens the debate on whether he was better than Pelé, Cruyff and Di Stéfano. Messi, whom many saw as his successor, could also fight his place in history. The death of Diego Armando Maradona, at the age of 60 due to heart failure, leaves the world of football orphaned of one of its biggest stars and once again puts on the table the eternal debate about who has been the best footballer in the world history. Who was better Maradona, Pelé, Cruyff or Di Stéfano? Of these four ball geniuses, the ‘Pibe de Oro’ has grabbed more covers than any: And, in the light of his sports side, Diego added the shadows of a dramatic life marked by addictions and drugs. But leaving this aspect aside, and focusing only on what he did on the pitch, the 'Ten' was an unrepeatable player, a dream dribbler, with a golden left foot and capable of making his teams triumph with his presence alone. And he did so, both in Naples and in the Argentine team [...] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rt...6/maradona-grande-entre-grandes/2058538.shtml Maradona the greatest of all time ? (Clarín Argentina) “Among the greatest” Diego Maradona: the supreme artist and the sterile comparison” Arguments about who was the best are impossible to settle. But the legacy that Diego left is unquestionable and has different edges than those of Pelé, Di Stéfano, Cruyff and Messi. Diego's goodbye has, of course, triggered tons of texts and planetary repercussions. And so, overwhelmed both by the shock of the moment and by the succession of images and memories, returning to the simple "soccer technique" would be a reductionist exercise. Also, endless. The discussion for "the greatest player of all time" is, at the same time, sterile. They will not be able to solve it neither in the coffee tables all over the world, nor in the debate of the panelists, nor even in a congress of scientists (if it occurred to them to do so). To cite any of the most authoritative references in terms of football opinion -Menotti or Bielsa, Guardiola or Del Bosque, Mourinho or Deschamps- and beyond any individual preference, all are prudent and place Diego Armando Maradona in a reserved Olympus just for him, Di Stéfano, Pelé and Cruyff, with Lionel Messi as incorporated in the last decades. And more just, more successful, would be to place each one as the reference of "their" time, their circumstances and the physical and technical evolution of the game. Curiously, this discussion did not exist half a century ago, in a decade of the 60s that marked the hegemony of Pelé and his consecration as the king of soccer. Alfredo Di Stéfano, who raised Real Madrid to its category of great since the mid-50s, was only recognized by the Spanish - still second-line in terms of national team competitions - and their European rivals. In addition, and simply due to a question of means (massive television and live football broadcasts were just emerging), the images about Di's exploits and his condition as a multipurpose player were scarce. Time put things in their place. The same experts spoke of Di Stéfano as a great, of Pelé in the 60s, the succession of Cruyff in the 70s and Maradona, a decade later. Until recently the impressive records of Messi and his validity at the top of football to this day, together with the duel with another colossus like Cristiano Ronaldo, installed them as stars at those levels, which also transcend football. If the measure were the world titles, Pelé would be at the top with the three that he accumulated in his four participations (in 66, they swept him with treachery and the silent referees in the first round). He was just 17 years old when he dazzled 58 in Sweden for the first conquest of Brazil, he was already a figure - but practically he participated little by injury - four years later in Chile. And he was reborn with the most dazzling soccer symphony of a National Team, the one that took the Mexico 70 title, complemented by talents that moved in the same rhythm: Jairzinho, Rivelino, Gerson and Tostao. The other items - technical, statistical - that cement his greatness are given by the cycle at Santos (two-time champion of the Libertadores and the Intercontinental), his mastery of almost all the offensive facets of the game, his physical power and scoring voracity - more than a thousand counted, although many enter the terrain of legend-, in this aspect only comparable to a Messi of our time. Di Stéfano, curiously, has a little gem that Pelé, Diego or Messi could not enjoy: he was champion of South America with the National Team, in Guayaquil 47. He had appeared as a young star in the unbeatable River of that time, before the conflict With the professionals, he would take him away from Argentina (with a stopover in Colombia, before his definitive consecration in Madrid when he was about to turn 30). Summoned for the NT of Spain for the World Cup 62, an injury left him out of the game. It was established mainly for two aspects: because around the Saeta Rubia, Real Madrid became a soccer power (winner of five consecutive European Cups and eight Leagues in the decade from 54 to 64), and for his versatility. He was a soccer decathlete, who came to play with equal efficiency in all positions -except for the goal, of course- and who amazed both for his technique and for his physical display. Johann Cruyff symbolized the Dutch revolution of the early 70s, first with Ajax and then with the National Team led by Rinus Michels: the first time that “total football” was spoken of, the one where its protagonists did not have fixed positions. With their great tactical display, they surprised and devastated rivals. They lacked the defining touch, yielding the final of the World Cup 74 to the experienced, proud and combative Germany of Beckenbauer, Breitner and Gerd Müller. Cruyff's elegant style led that band that accumulated eight Dutch leagues, three European titles and an Intercontinental with Ajax (his career also included club level conquests in Barcelona and Feyenoord). Of Maradona, little else can add to his epic and grandeur. The conquest of the 86 World Cup - with his individual performance and team leadership - remains among the greatest masterpieces in the history of football. Also, unexpectedly and due to the weight of his figure - dragging a foot injury - the National Team reached another final, four years later in Italy 1990. At the local level, Diego elevated Argentinos Juniors to the first positions, celebrated a title with Boca and left for his European campaign, where he achieved another of his milestones: under his leadership, one of the third-order teams in the Italian league, Napoli, he broke the dominance of the powerful northern sides. Diego's magic allowed him two Championship Serie A victories and a UEFA Cup in European competitions. The deep south of Italy raised Diego to a heavenly condition, a condition that continues to this day. In the same statistical line we come to a Messi who still today, at 33, continues to amaze by his validity and his records: more than 600 goals for Barcelona's account, almost 150 appearances with the Argentine National Team. His name is associated with one of the best teams in history, Barcelona, for which he contributed in more than 30 titles, including ten Spanish leagues, 4 Champions League and as many Club World Cups. Unfailing in the National Team, there it cost him more, but he was a finalist in a World Cup (2014) and two America's Cups, in addition to adding the youth world title (like Diego) and an Olympic gold. If this does not count so much for the most demanding, let us point out that Messi is considered - many times in hand-to-hand with another formidable scorer like Cristiano Ronaldo - the top of world football for more than a decade. They are five protagonists with seeds in common (they battled since they were very young on the courts of their neighborhoods), although different origins: Pelé and Maradona came from the most humble cradles, one in Tres Corazones (Minas Gerais) and the other in Villa Fiorito, deep suburbs. Di Stéfano and Cruyff were the children of small merchants, although the Dutchman lost his father early and had to collaborate with his mother in their fruit business from a young age. Different football schools (Ajax with Cruyff, Cebollitas in Argentinos with Maradona, Newell's and later Barcelona with Messi) greatly helped the development of those talents. But the genesis, in all cases, was in a devotion of 24 hours a day, a true synthesis of each one of them with the essence of football. The journalist by the name of Juvenal, from the pages of El Gráfico, also explained that one of the secrets of the success of any of the greats is "the dominance of their teams on the ball." He noted: "With Maradona, Argentina had theft. Because he was a gifted physicist? Because he was faster, stronger, more dynamic and more agile than his rivals? No. Because the ball was an extension of his anatomy and he handled it with an almost insulting ease. The great value of that conquest that came thanks to the genius of Maradona was that each of the factors that sustain football regained its true dimension, its true importance. " A distinctive aspect of those who maintain the preeminence of Diego is that he was able to triumph from adversity: from his own genius he built the greatness of his teams, even when he was not surrounded by such quality. This is partially unfair, since the 86 Argentina National Team had other players of international level. But the concrete thing is that Bilardo achieved one of the secrets there, such as “finding the team”, his spirit and his personality at the right time. “When we started with South Korea we didn't know if we could win. But a month later, when we entered the final with Germany, we were convinced that we could never lose, ”wrote Valdano in Soccer Dreams. In the case of Napoli, especially in the early days, Maradona did not have an accompaniment at the height of his level. Messi did enjoy that company: we have it very fresh with the midline formed by Iniesta-Xavi-Sergio Busquets or the powerful offense with Suárez-Neymar. Pelé first, but Maradona later and in an overwhelming way, they became social phenomena, a role to which neither Di Stéfano, nor Cruyff, much less Messi aspired. The Brazilian remains associated with the era in which soccer was consolidated as a universal, televised, mass spectacle, until it became a true industry. But Maradona, in that sense, reaches an infinite scale, with all the attributes of a rockstar. His feat and his tragedy. The discussion, as we pointed out, will be sterile. (Or someone will ask Mozart or Beethoven? Leonardo or Michelangelo? Vermeer or Rembrandt? Verdi or Puccini? Nureiev or Vassilev? ... and the geniuses follow). Diego Armando Maradona reached the status of supreme artist in his game. In that beauty of his artistic condition and his will to triumph, in the happiness that he gifted to so many millions from his talent and charisma, his legacy will remain. Eternal. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cl...remo-comparacion-esteril_0_xMv-Pjejt.amp.html
All of the above, particularly from 1978 onwards, once Alvarez was shipped away to Boca Juniors. Suffice to say, Alvarez was top scorer in 1977 with 27 goals in the Metropolitan Championship but never did replicate that form after he left the Paternal club and fell into obscurity.
The problem with your analogy is even if Maradona 87-90 wasn't Maradona every matchday He was Maradona enough times per season to be considered a markedly superior player to Totti Maradona had more than 2 years as a ATG league performer A bit surprising imo you wouldn't include 79-81 97 goals+50 assists in 111 appearances Maybe the single most dangerous dribbler in the history of the sport It's like he possessed prime Rivaldos finishing ability ,with ronaldinhos artistry and Lionel Messis close control At 19-21 years old Prodigy is the only applicable description Ancelotti became acquainted with Maradona from 1987 onwards In any season previous to 90/91(he was even REALLY great some games there) Totti at his peak 2000-2004 wasn't on the Same planet as Maradona Now if you want to talk about baggio(himself a prodigy) you may have a point
What a piss poor summary and contextualization of Cruijff there (compared to the other three). Not hard to tell who will be the victim over time from the demographic machinery. Further underlined by spelling his first name with double N.
Some great videos Gary Lineker impressed by Maradona Zidane impressed by Maradona referring to this video A curiosity, Maradona with 45 years playing against Messi and Tévez Platini bowing to Diego
He hardly played in Super teams like other absolute best players . So its nothing unusual . Also he played in the probably most competitive set of circumstances . Didn't have the luxury of playing for the biggest bullies in the park . And football is team sports after all , not an individual one. More like 1986 world cup and those two scudetto's with Napoli which came in 2nd half of the decade. People rates players on achievements a lot , which is the problem here . And not only Maradona, but other superstars of 80s also didn't achieve much Somewhat a bit of idea about how the circumstances in those times were . Platini didn't win much of major trophies, neither did Zico , if you're talking about Maradona by the same logic. Funny how he played these tournaments when he actually started having off-field problems related to cocaine and other things. All 19 of his Uefa cup matches were in his cokehead days . Regarding Copa America, he only played 2 matches in 1979 copa america and had to go to the u-19 world cup . He was one of the best players of the 1987 tournament last time i checked . He played the 1989 copa america having gained weight and with an injury . So i don't see what's the big fuss about it is . "when Maradona was very much still young enough to have made himself the unequivocal Copa America great " - he was in his 30s. And as i said before he started having those off field issues during his time at the Naples. And it affected his career . Besides the protection on the field, healthcare and other facilities in those times weren't like the modern day athletes enjoy which helps them to stay in good shape in their 30s compared to the previous era greats in general . Wth this even means? Maradona was world class /toplevel at least for 10-11 years from 1979-1990 . And his absolute prime lasted more than only 2 years. ( about 7/8 years i think, 1980-1986/87) . People just think his best level came only in 1986 world cup and for Napoli in the 2nd half of the decade because his teams didn't win many trophies as i said ,like other best players .
Maradona: footballer refuses to observe minute's silence for "rapist, paedophile and abuser" https://en.as.com/en/2020/11/29/football/1606681041_931525.html Hopefully this lady will be safe and not intimidated by the mobs. Also: by then the doubts about the football pedigree had largely disappeared, from the perspective here. As remarked on twitter. Everything that happened in the next four years was when his pedigree was accepted. "The famous comment of Theo Reitsma on Maradona's second goal against England - "All doubts are gone." - refers to the fact that until that day there was still huge doubt about the real capabilities of Maradona. Before that World Cup it was [often] considered an exaggeration to see a star in him." "Explainable right? Everyone really knew he could play football. But he didn't have big prizes yet. In 1982 he allowed himself to be provoked, opted for a low life flyer after Barcelona. Only in Mexico did he fulfill his promise, match after match. The following year he became champion with Napoli." "It is an explanation of a comment. Nor was it illogical. That's why a magazine like Elf, which wrote about him almost every month, was quite exceptional and those issues are now collector's items." "Most beautiful commentary ever after a scored goal .." "The best live commentator we ever had." And it was not only the prizes, it was also the (consistent) performance and delivery in the bigger games, even though there were some magnificent games against Real Madrid and Brazil before too. Other superstars like Platini for example had a better individual record against the elite teams until that specific date (regardless of whether his team won or not), when he got to play them. The magazines knew that and it is factually also not open for much discussion. Until that tournament Maradona had played nine times an elite team with world champions Argentina and with one goal (that Brazil game leadleader mentions), while scoring goals was a major part of his job. But after 1986 the 'doubt' was addressed, both in a trophies sense and in being a winner against the big boys. N.B. funny truth: the VAR had likely chalked off both 1986 England goals. The handball, but also the dribble because just two seconds before a potential foul was made (watch yourself).
Basically all feminists believe that all men are rapist, paedophile and abuser But, for what I know, Maradona had sex with some girls in Cuba, they were probably under 18, but it is not confirmed. In Cuba the age of sexual consent is 16 also in Argentina. That is why he is accused of being a pedophile. And for the accusation of abuse, his girlfriend or ex, I don't know, made a video which she said "Diego don't hit me" or something lika that This girl was not even allowed to go to Diego's funeral, because she doesn't have a good relationship with the family