Well in a thread about Maradona, I think I can talk about Maradona, the best football player in history by far For those who have doubts, I suggest you watch videos of him, it's simple like that Thanks for so much magic Diego!
Scroll above and see how it began. I didn't start it . Stop accusing me of things i didn't do. And please stop dragging this dirty things further and let the thread grow. This thread is only for Maradona and let's ensure it remains so
Obviously there are a wealth of takes out there now, from this, to the middle ground, to this. This journalist also remains excellent. But this one I found fascinating: Guus, what makes this photo so special according to you? "First of all, that you see number 10 on the shirt. The number 10 of a team is the ultimate shirt. I had photographed Maradona quite often in Naples, where he played at the time, and in February 1986 in Paris. He didn't look well. A guerrilla with a beard. Way too heavy and sluggish. But at the World Cup I couldn't believe how fit and how good he was. I photographed five of his matches, including the final. But this photo, after the 2-0 against Belgium, is the most iconic for me. " How did that happen? "I was completely wrong on both goals against England in the quarterfinals. If your country does not participate in a competition, as a photographer you will end up at the back of the line and hope for a good place. Because England was eliminated, many English photographers also went home after the quarterfinals. I therefore had a reasonably good position along the field against Belgium. "You didn't have to sit behind the billboards back then, you could still put your butt on the grass. After that 2-0, I took exactly two shots of Maradona's cheering. The second couldn't be better, I think. The lines from the stadium and from the tips of his hands to each other: they run just right. Although I had no idea what the photo looked like at the time. It was late afternoon, the stadium lights gave a very poor, hollow light. Fortunately I was able to focus well myself, those cameras did not yet have autofocus. I worked for a monthly magazine, Elf. At the end of the tournament, I developed some photos and sent them to them. " You also photographed Maradona in Naples, where fans adored him. How was that? "I think I photographed him for the first time in Naples. It was all madness. You had to watch out for your equipment at a game, because everyone managed to get into the stadium. Although I like madness. The biggest threat is that we ask ourselves in advance what our life will be like. Anyway. Naples is beautiful, in terms of location, the Italian architectural style. But also tormented by its own history. " Basically the way Maradona ended. "His body was completely exhausted. I also think he didn't really feel like it anymore. Cruijff could still afford it, get something out of lesser footballers he coached. I don't think Maradona could. And if you live like him, you have to have some leverage to get through that. It's sad that such a great player ended up being a weird clown. " What made Maradona unique? "I remember a game against Uruguay, where he passed right in front of me. As if a horse passed by. The ground moved, he was that fast and strong. His first three or four meters in combination with his technique made him the best footballer ever. He was built so strong. And his pedaling technique: great. Even though everything went to the maximum that was needed in that match. " You have both seen Cruyff and Maradona in action. "Cruyff was mentally very special and technically almost perfect. But Maradona had the real madness of getting into a zone of life where only the very greatest are. Muhammed Ali (the boxing legend with whom Dubbelman became friends, ed.) had that too. Cruijff was just a little too sober and down-to-earth for that. Pelé was also special, but he played just before the big TV era and before my time. Maradona performed at a time when football was at its toughest tactically and physically. Ordinary players were not protected at the time, and the stars not a lot either. " There is now also an Argentinian who sometimes passes a man and is called the greatest of all time. "Messi is second to none. It is not easy for him either, because teams are so well positioned these days, much better as then. But his movements are much smaller than Maradona's. That is why there are also fewer good pictures of Messi. Maradona works better on a photo camera. And Messi will probably never become world champion, Maradona has become. " How did you feel about seeing Maradona slide after he retired from football? 'Painful. But I think so too of myself (laughs). You feel the body slipping under yourself as you get older, which is no fun. " Do you dare the eternal comparison to who is the best football player of all time? "It is difficult to compare with each other. Emotionally, I should choose Cruijff, and I was really impressed by his mental outlook on things and his performance as a coach. But of the ones I've experienced, Maradona is the greatest. That 1986 World Cup was really very special. Maradona was the very best in an otherwise ordinary team. His pass to Jorge Burruchaga in the final against West Germany (from which the winning 3-2 fell) is a gem. " https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-ac...ond-bewoog-zo-snel-en-sterk-was-hij~be69bac0/
I dont think a goal from a computer simulation is that impressive. Dont know if it is real or not. Anyway, tricks are overrated. As Cruyff said: Playing the simple football is the hardest thing while tricks will help you to work in circus.
No, by the late 1970s I was traveling frequently to New York to study and could not visit any of his games. I saw him live in 1985 for the NT against Mexico in Los Angeles, at the World Cup stage and at Boca Juniors in the 1990s and he was a real maestro. Out of all of his excellent attributes, the strongest virtue that caught my attention was his valiance. Defenders kicked him, but he would only grow in stature. I saw other great players live in action but no one like him. Now that he rests, I want to thank him for all the vivid and poignant memories as our greatest NT representative of my generation. We had other NT idols but for one reason or another, none reached our hearts as he did. May he rest... Gracias Diego!
@Vegan10 Are you familiar with this performance? My God madre mia!!! What an insane player he was He did everything here,assists,dribbling runs,defence splitting through ball pre assists,scored a great header and a wonderful freekick there is one action towards the end that takes the cake for me around the 9:00 minute mark(the sombrero touch over the defender in the box followed by the shot on goal) 21 year's old dude Let's get this right Maradona at Napoli was something special but Maradona at Boca was something else @PDG1978 Could you rate this performance out of 10? Does it warrant the highest possible score(a rare 10 or does it fall short) I ask because I feel maybe you could be impartial
It's difficult to say, but I wouldn't err extremely close to a 10 I don't think no. Maybe more of a 9 than an 8 all in all for me, but I think this is vs the San Lorenzo from Mar del Plata who finished at the bottom of Group D in the Nacional championship (confusingly with another San Lorenzo in the same group!) and I think it shows a bit in terms of how easy it seems to be for Boca Juniors to cut through their defence (it should be kept in mind that without these 7 goals the defensive record of San Lorenzo MdP wouldn't be so bad though of course). I would say that he loses the ball or gives it away perhaps a few more times than would be happening in a near perfect display, and maybe the performance lacks the absolute vibrancy and brilliance that we can see from highlights he did show quite often during his time in Argentina before going to Barcelona. On the other hand he is showing a good connection in general with team-mates I think, and providing a number of good passes forwards too, and there are a few moments of going past players in there too. The fact his free-kick goal is probably in itself about perfect (it doesn't necessarily mean no goalie would save it I suppose, but it's right in the corner) arguably does cap his display as enough of the cherry on the cake might make me lean towards going as high as a 9 indeed (or at least 8.5). Hard to say given the opposition maybe though - it is perhaps equivalent to some games where Messi has had a lot of end product vs relegation candidate La Liga teams maybe? Probably you know already (since you asked me you maybe remember that I did give some marks out of 10 before for various performances, and was getting in the territory of 9.5 to 10 for the best one/s!) but out of the performances I've seen I do have a Maradona one at the top though - the 1986 semi-final vs Belgium. So maybe it is appropriate to post it here now (though it could be a while before Vegan provides a report about that game from local newspapers maybe): Maradona vs Belgium in World Cup 1986 (every touch) - YouTube Just as an aside (but I do think it's best if we stay off the contentious topics here now, and as far as Pele/Maradona is concerned maybe Pele's own comment about playing ball in the sky is the most appropriate thing to reflect on or appreciate/discuss if anything) maybe the only footage I saw of Pele as a kid is here right in the middle of the video: pele the greatest - YouTube The Boca Juniors number 20 in that San Lorenzo MdP game did nearly score a great goal himself I noticed (after a Maradona pass, hence being on the video)! Maybe Vegan knows who he is, like he knew I remember a lesser known Argentine international who had shown a great piece of play or assist before that he told us a bit about on another thread. It was at around 9 and a half minutes I think.
Sorry, no I think you were right Carlito (I hadn't read your post that closely at first) - the play I refer to is Maradona himself I think isn't it (it did seem like something he'd do but I must've thought I'd read number 20 on the shirt and then thought Maradona took the free-kick or played the pass - maybe it wasn't a free-kick - I think my concentration in that section and especially during the close up and reply following the effort where it is clear it is number 10 Maradona with the skill and goal attempt not the pass, wasn't great on first viewing!). I wouldn't be upgrading to a 10 or near 10 I don't think still, but it is another great moment (although he doesn't get the finish in the goal finally of course, not that it was a bad effort - actually a little bit like his first finish vs Belgium indeed).
If he had scored that goal(should've dinked it to be honest)than surely we'd be talking about a 9.5 It's fine margins here I think all the ingredients were there(except for bad decision making when he was in possession on a few occasions which id put down to mistakes/recklessness of youth) Your insight is great though when it comes to these things as usual. Here from a very underrated episode in his career 1982-1984 38 goals+24 assists in 4938 minutes playing as a FW/AM for so so FC Barcelona Menotti's Maradona report from 1978 PLAYER REPORT: Diego Armando Maradona GRADING ASSESSMENT: Very good, extraordinary. Speed 9.5. Starting Speed 9.5. With Ball 9.1. Without Ball 9.5. Agility 9.5. Jump power 8. MORAL CONDITION: Mental strength 10. Power of suffering 10. Concentration 10. Selfish 0. Personality 10. GENERAL TECHNIQUE: Unbeatable. SPECIFIED TECHNIQUE: Extraordinary, effective and just dribbling. Excellent power. Extraordinary courage. Extraordinary efficiency. Very good shot. Great passing. Total accuracy. Complete vision. Average heading. Good leadership. Very good power to retain the ball. Extraordinary ball protection. INDIVIDUAL TACTICS: Complete intelligence in football. Complete sense for football. Good view. Very good speed in efficiency. GENERAL CONCLUSIONS: Young. He was born on 30/10/1960. He has prodigious technical qualities, easy dribbling. He has a straight line vision facing the goal, but he knows how to get rid of the ball for the best placed teammate. Extraordinary reflexes. He protects the ball very well to play it immediately with great efficiency. His short passes and shots are pure wonder. Prodigious changes of pace. https://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2019/12/09/5deea64622601d84558b4632.html This is a player who potentially scores very highly on whoscoreds algorithm He was a offensive machine,technically marvellous and highly productive the only thing that derailed him was his demons and lack of protection from refs With the platform/support cast 82-84 Maradona arguably not only replicates the end product of Messi 2010/11 but does it with more panache/style after this it is difficult to make comparisons Messi had a 12 month stretch where he was as good a finisher as Gerd muller and the most prolific dribbler in world football But 2011 Messi(his most balanced version IMO) Maradona with the right circumstances and discipline had the potential to replicate that level of performance
Thanks mate. Better than my eyesight anyway lol! I don't even know if there was a number 20 on the field for Boca (probably not as no reason there should be, but I'd have to check again). I think with one view (not paying attention to the replay properly), from a distance, the way the number 1 was printed on the jersey made it seem to me like a 2! It takes one good pass away from the assessment, but does replace it with the piece of skill and ingenuity (with some parallels obviously to Pele's famous goal vs Sweden) so surely something further in the positive column (moreso if he'd gone on to get the ball in the net of course like I say though).
He was You mean to say he wasn't a 'clown' I agree Denilson 1000 dribbles and 1 goal avg every 10 matches=clown Pele was defintely a crowd pleaser with superlative end product that maybe overshadowed his other qualities you cannot say definitively every single thing he did was purposeful and not for the fans He was objective in the way of R9 maybe Someone like Messi is more methodical/mechanical/objective He does whatever the situation requires Some others were maybe better entertainers than Pele (Garrincha,julinho,pagao maybe some others) But crowds defintely did turn up in numbers to see him work magic He's a Brazilian also(it's in the blood)
My statement wasn't clear enough. Pele had tricks, but he wasn't a trickster just for the sake of it. His tricks had a purpose.
Does anyone know how many assists and goals did Diego have in the 1988-1989 UEFA CUP? So far I've counted 7 assists: 2 against Bayern Munchen in the home game, 2 in the away game, 1 against Stuttgart in the home game and 2 in the away game.
Yes, that was against San Lorenzo of Mar del Plata. The team he scored his first goals as a pro but when he was at Argentinos Juniors in 1976 in the match report above. He received a grade of a 10 from El Gráfico for the match you are referring to in 1981 when he was still 20-years-old.
He had nine assists and also 3 goals (all penalties, not won by himself, but directly involved in winning one). Six or seven of these assists originated from a set-piece situation I think, with another deflected as well. He wasn't as dominant here as in 1986 or even the scudetto a year later.
Briefly re-checked the home game against Bayern and the first assist was the deflected one, the second originated from a set-piece certainly. The header assist in the final too, as another example. Either way, the answer is nine assists.
Vegan, would you like me to make another thread and move all the posts across for the tributes, to keep this one for its original purpose? Entirely your choice if you wanted to avoid this getting cluttered.
I don’t think that will be necessary, mate. The tributes should fade soon or continue in the Argentinian forum. But thanks for asking.
DM10s top level against the medium-lower teams in a domestic league was a good as any player I've seen(Messi included) All things considered pescara wasn't as bad as their position in the table suggests https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988–89_Serie_A https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescara_Calcio_1988-1989 Boasting a better defensive record as juventus and many teams above them for example Maradona orchestrated arguably the greatest offensive display of the 1988/89 Serie A campaign (2 goals+3 assists in a 8-2 thumping) Without conceding those 8 goals in a single match(5 of which Maradona was directly involved in)pescara would have the 2nd best defensive record of Serie A 88/89 marginally behind scudetto champions inter Milan Against the real top teams I think the best ever performers were G.Muller,Messi,Pele and Cristiano each with differing styles and zones of influence but equally important It must be mentioned though in the interest of fairness Maradona always had a strong record against the top level domestic teams whether that be Milan in Italy or real Madrid in Spain Made all the more impressive by the quality of his teammates (or I should say lack thereof for large parts of his career in Europe)