Did you hear? Richard Armitage had his sentence commuted!

Discussion in 'Bill Archer's Guestbook' started by Karl K, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    Bush was known for not commuting sentences and Texas law does not allow him to anyway if BPP doesn't recommend it. I'm not sure you can pin that on him.
     
  2. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    I really wish you people would give up this talking point. Fitzgerald investigated Armitage and decided not to indict him because it became clear that Armitage was not aware of Plame's covert status when he revealed her name to Novak.

    What could Libby testify about?? How about the reasoning behind his lies to the grand jury - who was he covering for?
     
  3. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    So now lying under oath for a personal matter is ok.

    Once again, if you are soooo concerned about the rule of law, then address Clinton's one hundred some-odd pardon's with crimes much more severe than someone lying about a crime that didn't happen.
     
  4. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    I didn't say it was OK.

    So much stupid there...let's start with the whole "Clinton did it" defense. If you're going to scream about how Presidential pardons are entirely the purview of the Executive, then don't bitch about what Clinton did. Further, Reagan pardoned approximately 200 more people than Clinton did - you wanna go there? Again, the same people who were screaming about "the rule of law" when Clinton was impeached are the ones now talking about selective enforcement of the law now that one of their own is involved. Libby was convicted by a jury of his peers, by a GOP-appointed prosecutor, sentenced by a GOP-appointed judge, and his sentence upheld before a panel of GOP-appointed appellate court judges.

    Your argument about "lying about a crime which didn't happen" defies logic. If there was no crime, what possible reason would Libby have for lying about it - multiple times - before a grand jury?
     
  5. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano

    I believe these are your words.

    Apparently Fitzgerald determined there was no crime. The outing was an accident. Don't talk about stupid when you're spouting stupid.
     
  6. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    DC United
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    United States
    You're conflating two seperate issues. Fitzgerald determined that Armitage had not committed a crime because he had not known of Plame's covert status. Cheney, however, did know about her status, and said as much when he attempted to retroactively declassify the NIE where her name appeared. Libby lied to the FBI about where he had picked up Plame's status (he claimed he learned from Tim Russert, when in fact he had known for certain long before he ever spoke to Russert), and he repeated that lie before the grand jury. Libby was convicted by the jury, and some members of the jury even went so far as to say that, based upon the evidence presented in the case, Libby was an obvious fall guy and that they wondered why the investigation couldn't go any higher than Libby. The sad fact of the matter is that Libby's obstruction made it impossible for Fitzgerald to mount a case against Cheney.

    At the end of the day, Libby was convicted of perjury before the FBI and the grand jury, in an investigation that was trying to determine whether the leaking of the name of a CIA covert operative originated in the White House. All of this horseshit about Armitage and Clinton is secondary to the fact that Libby lied - multiple times - to a federal agency investigating a crime, and repeating those lies to a grand jury. He was convicted and sentenced. The GOP's caterwauling about the "rule of law is absolute" in the Clinton case seems to have fallen by the wayside in a transparent attempt to justify the sweetheart deal Libby got.
     
  7. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
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    So you just don't see why no one with nothing to hide would let the police search their house without a warrant?

    The whole Libby affair is a classic case of the people in the Bush Admin. doing stupid crap to try and prevent embarassing things from coming out, which is difficult to do this day in age with an entire press corps, mainstream media, and "loyal opposition" that's been out to get him from the time he was winning primaries in early 2000. The "cover up" of Pat Tillman's death is another classic example, where they tried to not give their opponents anything to use as ammunition, yet made things worse...
     
  8. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    Really poor analogy. I expect someone who has been subpoenaed to testify a grand jury to tell the truth, like anyone else.
     
  9. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
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    Perhaps, but that wasn't your point. You were stating he was hiding a crime because the jury found he obstructed justice, lied, what have you...
     
  10. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
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    No, I stated that the jurors, who heard all the evidence and are thus much more qualified than you or I to pass judgement on the merits of the case, felt that Libby was an obvious fall guy for people much higher in the administration.

    Further, I stated that Libby's obstruction and perjury made it impossible for Fitzgerald to mount an effective case in that regard, a fact supported by Fitzgerald's numerous statements to that effect.
     
  11. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
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    Ignorance of the law is no excuse; why are you (and Fitz) allegedly giving Armitage a pass that you don't likewise extend to Libby? If the outing was a crime, it was a crime; awareness of her alleged covertness or not!
     
  12. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    Because the law regarding protection of covert operatives was written in such a way as to exclude those who did not know of the person's status prior to disclosure, or do you not recall Victoria Toensing's testimony in February?
     
  13. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
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    Then give me an honest answer: Why would you assume that Armitage did not know of Plame's alleged covert status but Libby did? It's not a hard question to answer; do it honestly please.
     
  14. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    I'm not assuming anything. Fitzgerald announced that, per the wording of the statute, he could not prosecute Armitage. Go ask Fitzgerald. Libby knew because he had access to the NIE, via Cheney, prior to disclosure.
     
  15. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
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    Yes you are, and did. You assume that Libby "knew;" you said it yourself.
     
  16. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    He did know. He read the NIE which contained the classified information prior to disclosing that information to Russert and the guy from Time (whose name escapes me right now). If you want to make the case that he didn't comprehend what he had read, knock yourself out.
     
  17. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
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    You admit that you "assume" that Mr. Libby knew about Plame's alleged convert status but you won't extend the same assumption to Mr. Armitage? Could it be that, as a loyal moonbat Claymore, Cheney, Rove, and Libby are on your hate list and Armitage is not perhaps? Is that the reason you give Armitage a pass that you don't extend to Libby? After all, Richard Armitage held a very lofty perch at the State Department. Wouldn't he have generally the same sort of access that Mr. Libby was privy to; re: NIE and other intelligence? Or was it, as I suspect, that you'd assume all manner of evil from the White House that you could even fathom from the State Department? Why is it, you think, that for a year you moonbats railed against Karl Rove yet he wasn't charged by Fitz? You moonbats assume all day without proof! Even the broad Plame and her daffy husband still accuse Karl Rove in this issue without the slightest bit of proof, yet I don't recall hearing Plame or Wilson saying one word of contempt or scorn for Armitage! Why do you think that?
     
  18. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    Like I said, go ask the GOP-appointed prosecutor, judge, and appellate judges.

    And what does Armitage have to do with the fact that Libby was convicted of multiple counts of obstruction and perjury? Where is your outrage that Bush has usurped the rule of law for one of his staffers, an accommodation not afforded to countless others convicted of exactly the same crimes? Where is all the outrage previously reserved for Clinton when he perjured himself?
     
  19. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    If Toensing is the expert on covert status, then let’s see what she really had to say….

    She seems to be saying that Plame wasn’t covert, therefore no crime was committed.
     
  20. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
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    And she was dead wrong on that count. The CIA later confirmed her status as covert at the time of disclosure, and Fitzgerald noted that in his post-trial brief. Toensing did, however, assist in the writing of that particular statute in 1978.
     
  21. Microwave

    Microwave New Member

    Sep 22, 1999
    link?
     
  22. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    I finally got around to reading your blog today. I apologize for the delay.
     
  23. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    DC United
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    United States
  24. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
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    United States
    Weak sauce.
     
  25. Microwave

    Microwave New Member

    Sep 22, 1999

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