Doesn't matter? Meeting up to half your payroll from one game's gate receipts goes a long way in keeping your team solvent or even turning a profit. So yeah, it does matter. Not having that guaranteed boost in funds, especially in this environment, is a detriment to potential investors and makes MLS less attractive.
That model has both kept the league alive while simultaneously held it back. I think it's necessary, but I still hate it. But yeah, they are going to have to find a benefactor to come in, take 49% control of Montreal and throw down the expansion fee. I'm not sure if there's anyone who's willing to do that, but that'll break this impasse in a heartbeat.
Funny how some people say it's ONLY one game... it was a WEEKDAY NIGHT, in the middle of WINTER in a hockey dominated city during the NHL season. What else do you need as proof? Let us not forget that the Impact is a "simple" USL team and already draw 13,000 full-house crowds every game during their regular season. 13,000 not many? It's alot more than any other USL team - including the ones having shifted to the MLS. Oh and... their stadium has a max capacity of... 13,000 LOL. If I recall, Toronto, currently the most successful franchise in the MLS (in terms of public support), had an average crowd of... 900 when they were in the USL. Now imagine what success MTL would have if they make the jump to MLS. It already is much more successful than most of current MLS teams! Not having Montreal in the MLS is total nonsense. This league NEEDS Montreal more than Montreal needs the MLS. If the MLS is to become a strong league, especially during hard times, it needs strong franchises. They have the population, the culture, the fan base, the franchise history, the roster, championships, amazing CCL run, strong ownership... everything this league needs. If Garber wants to fill his league with weak franchises just for the sake of getting his hands on the 40 M $ entry price, he's in for a big surprise in a not so distant future.
Montreal may be a great market but as of now there is not an owner who is willing to enter the league. Your statements make it sound as if the league will fail without the Impact. That is complete bullshit. New markets in the US are doing quite well thank you. The league will continue to grow and develop at a pace that suits the structure of the league.
Replace "Montreal" with "Rochester" and we had this exact same conversation 10 years ago. Not that I don't like Montreal, mind you. Great city. Kudos to them for Wednesday night. Good club. Would be nice to have them. But if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. And if it's not, MLS will muddle through somehow. And you're a fanboy.
Most of the Portland Timbers' best crowds (and I'm talking about USL league games) are on Thursday nights. Reason: Thirsty Thursday. Darned promotion was meant to cover a baseball soft spot and the Timbers took it and ran. Sometimes, it helps the Beavers, but that's another story. Everything's pretty much falling into place in Portland, mostly due to the apparent will of the Paulson family. Merritt will pay the fee, Henry will cover the bonds, and they may even chip in for a ballpark if the site is right. If you hear something about Paulson and some convention center hotel, you would be right to ask what's in the Portland water. Not that I'm questioning it...
Yeah I think Montreal will find out in the not so distant future that not paying $40 mil will be a mistake when they watch Miami, Portland, Vancouver, St Louis, New York2, Atlanta, and who else enter the league and prosper. Then what will happen when the price is $80 mil or more when the economy is back and the league has boomed? I think we can suffer through it. Oh, and it was a great crowd indeed. But people make it out to things like this all the time in the middle of the wee right? It was a 7 start. Houston had a 9PM start. Though the crowd was not near to 55,000 but 9PM is a huge differance.
I wouldn't worry about that. What I worry about as a fan of Atlanta's expansion, and what Montreal should consider as well is that MLS has 16 teams. What happens if we're not in the next 4 expansion teams, and MLS decides to hold at 20 for a few years? Or at 22? There are going to be a lot of deserving cities consigned to USL or worse for a long time. New York City; Atlanta; Miami; Ottawa; Montreal; Vancouver; St. Louis; Portland; Milwaukee; San Diego; Phoenix all these places have at least some level of desire for a team, not to mention some city might come out of nowhere like Ottawa seemed to do this round. And Saputo took him self out from the front of the line.
LOL. I bring up the RRR all of time and you hear nothing but crickets. You can see which fanboys, and which kids need a lot of business classes, whom Joey has been personally tutoring. In their Joey hot air loudmouth rants they better start worrying about if they will have a league. Lose two more of their bigger/more stable markets to MLS and they better hope these new teams come in with a bang...and decide to hang around. I see a lot more Miami's and Atlanta's out there instead of PDX's and Vancouver's. Hope I'm wrong for the good of the game here but I have my doubts. Pennywise and pound foolish is what Joey might very well be. It's a risk either way and MLS looks like a much more stable long term risk at this point than the USL does finanically. It's great that Mon-real is doing well in the cup and proud of their team but this is a marathon, and even if you pull ahead at mile marker 6 or 7 for a bit there is still a long, long, long way to go. Joey's really gotta be cursing TFC. Their success really screwed him up big time.
I'm a little confused on this. If you're trying to show that your league is strong, wouldn't you report that your team is making a profit (though you could say a relatively small profit, like Dallas) I'm not saying let Saputo dictate terms, but I'm saying be a little more flexible in dealing with him. That's what I meant when I said "do whatever it [the MLS] can". The Canadian dollar did a nosedive recently, but apparently there are a lotta soccer fans up there in Montreal. Could the MLS be a little more flexible in this? The MLS, no matter how you cut it, generally does not have that kind of fan support Funny! Okay, let me ask you two questions. First, will adding Joey Saputo as a owner of a team in the MLS destroy the MLS? If so then it would be lunacy to add Saputo. Second, in light of the unbelievable attendance figures that Montreal posted for events that lets face it, aren't exactly the biggest events on the planet, can the MLS afford to turn its back on Montreal? I've always been a believer in going to places where there's a demonstrated demand. Montreal has strongly demonstrated that demand. Yeah I may sound like a lunatic on this, but this is why I'm banging my head against the wall. No matter how you cut it, the MLS is struggling for respect. Unless there's some serious doctoring of the books, the MLS overall is still in the red. We have half to two-third empty stadiums (in some cases half-empty SSS) for games. We got one strongly supported team in Toronto that really doesn't have a rival (I mean a real derby-style rival) in the MLS. Then we have another city (Montreal) that already has a SSS stadium that is easily expandable, has outstanding attendance for a few soccer games and already are natural rivals of Toronto outside of soccer. 55,000 people show up for a second division team outside soccer season and are actually supporting the home team. Does this actually happen in North American soccer ouside of Mexico? Montreal is a world-class city with no real summer professional team (though the CFL starts early up there). Yet the MLS stance right now is basically we're not dealing with Montreal because we can't stand Saputo and he didn't cough up enough money. That is why I call this lunacy. Someone compared Montreal to Rochester. As far as I know, Rochester never drew more than 40K for a soccer game. I guess we can agree to disagree here...
Your typical Canadian arrogance is why I hope you never get into MLS. Really, Toronto is the most successful club in MLS in public support even though LA Galaxy, Seattle, and DC have better attendance? The league NEEDS Montreal? No, the league is doing just fine without Montreal. The new expansion markets are doing wonderful. Seattle has already sold over 20,000 season tickets which is more than any North American club. DC, Houston, New England, and New York are all constructing new state of the art downtown stadiums that will make Saputo look like a high school stadium.....well I guess it already does. To argue that USL is better than MLS is completely foolish. How many players get called up to the US National from USL compared to MLS. None, because it's an inferior league.
Whining about the canadian dollar taking a nose dive is complete crap. For most of my life, and I'm in my mid 40's, the Canadian dollar has alway been worth less than the US dollar. For a few months it was on par but that is not a normal thing. The cost of the franchise is 40 million US dollars. Not 40 million yen, rupies or aussie dollars. 40 million in US cash. Thing haven't been so rosy down here either. Dropping the expansion fee is not and should not be an option. As for Stupedo, he "offered" 20 million recently.......... that's half of what others are willing and WILL pay. Screw him.
MLS has no reason to devalue their product if they don't have to - as long as they have other bids. It is a direct slap in the face of all who have invested, made the commitment and lost a lot of money to get to this point. They invested and put their dollars on the line when the league was in dire straits, and there was a ton more risk. JS had his chance to get in 4 or 5 years ago at a cut rate and he outwardly chided/mocked MLS. I guarantee he would not vote to let anyone in for half price if he was in the league now (if he had other full price options). Not a chance. Bet every thing I own on it. Bet he would mock the city, like he did MLS years ago, who was trying to do what he is! Why does he want in now? Serious. Why do any of you want in so bad? You laid out all of the reasons why MLS is weak, so stay in the USL and make it work at what you think is reasonable and a better system from what I gather from most of you. Good luck and we will see where we both end up. What's the big deal? See how far that gets you. How can Mon-real fans be this upset when it's only MLS. To let anyone in for half price now, which is what JS is essentially offering, to get the full benefit of what everyone else has done and worked for/suffered for over the last 13 years, besides the fact that he missed a much cheaper and earlier option to get in and acted like a complete dick, is nothing short of stupid...as long as there are other options. It's sounding more and more like a bunch of kids stamping their feet and whining about why can't they just have their way. It was mentioned earlier and I agree. OK, let JS in under his terms. He just gets half of shirt sales, half SUM money, half of his TV contract, half of new add sales/stadium naming rights, etc he gets from now on because of MLS...until the full 40 is paid off...with interest. Sounds flexible to me. Otherwise be happy where you are. It's only MLS. Boring half filled stadiums. Can't compete in the CCC. No rivalries. There isn't much there. Hell, why do any of you actually want in?! The more I think of it, it just doesn't make sense. It's lunacy. Lunacy I tell you. Plain lunacy. You guys are nuts.
When RRR were averaging 12K or so per match and had their own stadium coming MLS was close to folding in the opinion of many. At that time the same type of arguements/rants you are making were made then as to why MLS was stupid and inflexible. Just work something out and let them in. We need RRR morons! (pounding head agansnt wall). Waive the stupid fee for them already! Idiots! MLS was proved right to stay away from RRR. JS could have gotten in for a song and laughed at MLS. The league, it's future, interest $$$, sponsers, owners and current stability (you name it) far supercedes what it was then. That's why the price went up. Get it. If the lame, ill thought out answer by someone to this post will be - Mon-real offers more and is more stable now than RRR ever did/was - then the answer is simple - -so does MLS. Got it?
I'm not sure where you understood that Montreal was the ONLY reason the MLS would survive in my quote... I never wrote that lol. Notice I wrote that the MLS needs strong franchiseS, at plurar. All I'm saying is Montreal already IS one. As of now, Montreal is in my opinion the most logical choice in the current expansion choices. I have absolutely no objection for the other expansion candidates. Montreal is the subject of the thread.
Maybe when you wrote this.............. "Not having Montreal in the MLS is total nonsense. This league NEEDS Montreal more than Montreal needs the MLS." Key problem........................ Montreal is no longer a candidate because Joey Stupedo screwed the pooch by trying to lowball the league. Therefore they are no longer a choice.
Most logical? Did you read my responses? How is the bid JS put forward logical? In what business world? Please don't ignore. Respond. Wow me with a logical answer. If you can't then please start putting "IMO" at the end of your statements. How is half price logical with all the answers/issues I brought up. Logic should make it easy.
It seems he is doing that classic - I won't respond to anything I don't have a legit answer for - but I'll keep posting until I lose all credibility and I become Esteban of Mon-real.
Your typical Canadian arrogance is why I hope you never get into MLS. No offense but "arrogance" is definitaly not an argument an american should use. In any case, I absolutely have NO objections with the other bids. The subect of the thread is Montreal. Really, Toronto is the most successful club in MLS in public support even though LA Galaxy, Seattle, and DC have better attendance? If that's true, could it be because they have bigger stadiums? If Toronto doesn't draw more than 20,000... it's because their SSS can't hold more... geez... I'm pretty sure they could easily fill 35,000 on a regular basis. The league NEEDS Montreal? No, the league is doing just fine without Montreal. The new expansion markets are doing wonderful. Seattle has already sold over 20,000 season tickets which is more than any North American club. DC, Houston, New England, and New York are all constructing new state of the art downtown stadiums that will make Saputo look like a high school stadium.....well I guess it already does. Wow dumb point. You compare oranges with apples. You forget that Impact is still in USL and you compare it with current MLS franchises. Another thing, Saputo Stadium would get expanded and renovated if they shift into MLS, just like many other current MLS franchises did. Only IF Montreal gets into the MLS and expands its current stadium can you make such comparisions. Comparing brand new first division team stadiums with a second division team's is lame. If you want to compare the Saputo stadium, do it with other USL stadiums. Does it still look like a high school stadium? To argue that USL is better than MLS is completely foolish. How many players get called up to the US National from USL compared to MLS. None, because it's an inferior league. Where did you read that? I never wrote anything like that...
Phil. Why do you keep responding with people where you know you can find a response? Taking the easy way out. Try me. C'mon. Respond. What was wrong with my posts? Do you have anything? Anything at all? Looking rather cowardly right now quite honestly. I'm a pragmatic, logical guy. Have over 30 people in my division and "still" make money each quarter. Even now. My job is to run my business pragmatically and logically. Try me. Could be an interesting discussion..... ....or are you gonna take the easy way out?
Read slowly : "Not having Montreal in the MLS is total nonsense. This league NEEDS Montreal more than Montreal needs the MLS."... Notice I didnt wrote : This league NEEDS Montreal or it will dissapear. It might very well dissapear it fills on weak franchises. I'm only saying it needs strong ones, like Montreal - again, Montreal is the subject of the thread.