http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#vietnam Most people have heard something about George W. Bush pulling strings to get into the Texas Air Guard. But the press, while reporting lots of details, has done a poor job of communicating how consistently and shamelessly Bush Jr. sought and received favorable treatment while he avoided Vietnam. [Please don't post copyrighted material.]
A Byrd in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush? https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=869322#post869322 Joe, you're making yourself look extremely foolish trying to discredit the Iraqi freedom movement by defaming Pres. Bush. We all know he was AWOL. Get over yourself and focus on the topic at hand. Oh yea, the topic at hand is Bush.
Re: A Byrd in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush? Nice try but there's only one hypocrite in this equation.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030411.html You can always count on this site for a balanced view... My favorite part: Recent info shows that Bush wasn't lying; he was just telling the truth as he saw it. Documents exist to prove our president was, at that time, living on a Tex/Mex Ganja farm with a family of Honduran migrant workers and would only answer to the name "Jorgito." He spent his days and nights ripping lines and smoking so much salvia divanorum that he truly believed he was at an Alabama National Guard base. In letters to his father, Jorgito speculated that most of the company had "gone native", accounting for the swarthy appearance and strange patois of his brothers-in-arms. In Jeb Bush's memoirs, he recounts how his older brother often referred to his stint with the guard as "a time of deep spiritual and sexual awakening", and frequently spoke of how proud he had been to serve with "such damn fine soldiers. Real Americans who really knew their hemp."
While I hate to interrupt another fact-free thread inspired by nothing much other than the absurd hatred some of you harbot for George Bush, please allow me to point out just one or two real, actual facts: This whole "Bush was AWOL" thing is a favorite accusation of the anti-Bushies, (and particularly of noted liar Michael Moore) one given new life a few years ago by a story in the Boston Globe, which alleges a one-year gap in Bush's service record. But later reporting proved Bush wasn't AWOL. Probably the most comprehensive media review of Bush's military records concluded that while he, "served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, he did accumulate the days of service required for him for his ultimate honorable discharge." The review was done by Georgemag.com, the online version of the magazine founded by the late John F. Kennedy Jr. The New York Times also looked into the charge and found it lacked substance. Documents reviewed by The Times showed that Mr. Bush served in at least 9 of the 17 months in question... On Sept. 5, 1972, Mr. Bush asked his Texas Air National Guard superiors for assignment to the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery "for the months of September, October and November." Capt. Kenneth K. Lott, chief of the personnel branch of the 187th Tactical Recon Group, told the Texas commanders that training in September had already occurred but that more training was scheduled for Oct. 7 and 8 and Nov. 4 and 5. But Mr. Bartlett said Mr. Bush did not serve on those dates because he was involved in the Senate campaign, but he made up those dates later. Colonel Turnipseed, ("if that IS your real name") who retired as a general, said in an interview that regulations allowed Guard members to miss duty as long as it was made up within the same quarter. Mr. Bartlett pointed to a document in Mr. Bush's military records that showed credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in January, April and May. The May dates correlated with orders sent to Mr. Bush at his Houston apartment on April 23, 1973, in which Sgt. Billy B. Lamar told Mr. Bush to report for active duty on May 1-3 and May 8-10. Another document showed that Mr. Bush served at various times from May 29, 1973, through July 30, 1973, a period of time questioned by The Globe. Even the Boston Globe's story admits Bush served more than the minimum time, and was a fine pilot: Those who trained and flew with Bush, until he gave up flying in April 1972, said he was among the best pilots in the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron. In the 22-month period between the end of his flight training and his move to Alabama, Bush logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for so-called ''weekend warriors.'' Indeed, in the first four years of his six-year commitment, Bush spent the equivalent of 21 months on active duty, including 18 months in flight school. Incidentally, Bush flew with the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron, which was attached to the 147th Fighter Wing, based in Houston, Texas. While Bush's unit never got called to Vietnam, the 147th was. From 1968 through 1970, pilots from the 147th participated in operation "Palace Alert" and served in Southeast Asia during the height of the Vietnam War. The 147th came off runway alert on Jan. 1, 1970 to start a new mission of training all F-102 pilots in the United States for the Air National Guard. Bush enlisted as an Airman Basic in the 147th Fighter-Interceptor Group at Ellington Air Force Base, Houston, on May 28, 1968 - at a time when the 147th was actively participating in combat in Vietnam. However, one can not train overnight to be a pilot. Bush completed basic flight training and then, from December 1969 through June 27, 1970, he was training full-time at Ellington to be an F-102 pilot. Bush volunteered to serve in a unit at the very moment it was seeing combat in Vietnam, and only a restructuring of the unit's mission before he completed his flight training made it unlikely he would fly in combat. And he was never AWOL - he completed his required service and even served beyond the minimum. All of this of course begs the question of why so many of you want to find something that simply isn't here but are more than happy to ignore the fact that Bill Clinton spent the same period of time burning his draft card, demonstrating in England and not inhaling. Finally, I just have to laugh at some of this absurd "His commanding officer didn't remember him so he wasn't there" bullshit. Bush was the son of an obscure first term back bencher from the minority party. A retired general in his 80's doesn't remember this one guy who served WAY beneath him for a few months in Alabama 31 years ago. Thus, according to you, he simply wasn't there. If this is what you guys call conclusive proof, it's not surprising the AMerican electorate thinks you're out of touch.
I don't really give a shit about GWB's military record, but the Bush family was already a pretty big deal back then. Remember, GWB is in the third generation of leaders.
That's an interesting phrase. "Third generation of Leaders" Meaningless, particularly in this context, but interesting. So you're saying that Dubya used his great, powerful family influence to sign up with a unit which was, at that time, serving in Viet Nam, as a way of avoiding serving in Viet Nam? Or perhaps you're not aware that many, many ANG units were called to active duty. Probably not, since you seem to know very little about a great many things. Perhaps though, while we're reviewing how Mr Bush evaded service by cleverly enlisting, we can review how the previous president managed to avoid serving at all: In 1964 Bill Clinton was classified 2-S (student deferment), which protected him from the draft throughout his undergraduate years at Georgetown University. As Bill Clinton approached graduation from Georgetown in 1968 his classification was changed to 1-A (Available for the draft). Family and friends with political influence kept Bill Clinton out of the draft after his graduation from Georgetown University. His uncle, Raymond Clinton, in 1968 personally contacted Senator Fulbright, William Armstrong (Chairman of the Hot Springs draft board) and Lt. Commander Tice Ellis, Jr. (Commanding Officer of the local Naval Reserve unit) to obtain a slot for Bill in the Naval Reserve. A slot was especially created for Bill when no existing reserve slots were open at his local reserve unit. Bill Clinton, choosing not to follow through, failed to show up at the reserve unit for his interview and physical. Raymond Clinton later informed Lt. Com. Ellis that Bill would not be joining the reserves and that "everything has been taken care of." Robert Corrado a former member of the Hot Springs draft board in 1968 recalled the chairman of the three man draft board held back Clinton's file with the explanation that "we have to give him time to go to Oxford." Corrado further stated that Armstrong "complained about an aide from Senator Fulbright's office urging him and his fellow board members to give every consideration to keep Clinton out of the draft." Clinton's draft file was routinely held back from consideration by the full board for the remainder of the year. On February 2nd, 1969 Bill Clinton, while at Oxford University, finally takes his physical for the armed services and passes. His pre-induction physical was delayed over 10 months (twice as long as anyone else in his age group and situation). In April 1969 Clinton failed to show up for his induction to military service. Clinton claims he did not receive the notice until after the deadline date and the draft board told him to "ignore" this notice. While still in Oxford, Bill Clinton begins planning his appeal for his next induction notice. The plan he comes up with is to have his notice rescinded by joining the R.O.T.C. at the University of Arkansas. In July of 1969 Clinton returns home from Oxford after he receives a second induction notice. He is to report on July 28, 1969. Clinton's friend and Oxford classmate, Cliff Jackson, had several friends in influential positions arrange a meeting for Clinton with Col. William A. Hawkins. Hawkins was the only man in the State of Arkansas who could rescind an induction notice. Clinton's induction notice was rescinded and was admitted into the Arkansas University R.O.T.C. program after he promised to enroll in law school at the University of Arkansas. Bill's new draft classification is 1-D (ROTC deferment) For the remainder of the summer, Bill Clinton goes to Washington D.C. and works with the anti-war movement at the National Headquarters of the Vietnam Moratorium. As September approached, Bill Clinton failed to enroll at the University Arkansas and instead returned to England around mid-September of 1969. Clinton's appearance at Oxford was unexpected and he had to sleep on the floor in his friend's room. In October and again in November 1969 Clinton organized and led anti-war demonstrations in London, England with the support of the British Peace Council, which was financed by the World Peace Council, since acknowledged as a front for the KGB. October 30, 1969 Clinton was automatically reclassified to 1-A eligible for induction, after he failed to enroll at the University of Arkansas. Bill Clinton today claims he volunteered for the draft but virtually no one believes him and he has no proof. Regardless, by this time a freeze was put on the draft until the lottery was established. The Selective Service Lottery was held on December 1, 1969. Clinton's birthday draws number 311 in the first lottery. This high number guarantees Clinton will not be called up for the draft. Two days later Clinton writes his infamous ROTC letter to Col. Hawkins thanking him for saving him from the draft. Now tell me: who lied, pulled strings and manipulated the system to avoid service in Viet Nam: the guy who signed up to train as a fighter pilot in a unit which was serving in Viet Nam or the guy who didn't show up when he was called? You guys should have stuck with the museum thing. It was at least funny. This stuff is just a blatent smear, and it makes you look petty, hateful and ignorant.
At this point, I thought, wait a minute...he could have been AWOL and served enough days. These two are absolutely NOT mutually exclusive. In fact, you'd think "serving irregularly" is pretty much the definition of going AWOL. So I skimmed the rest of Bill's post for the link, to see if Bill had made some kind of syntactical error or something that screwed up the original meaning. And you know what? There's no link. For anything. Strange, that.
Do your own homework for once. You guys all seem to have a disconnect in regards to the National Guard. I'm not going to explain that to you either. Suffice it to say that the committment has to do with hours, not calendar time. AWOL is a term one uses to describe active duty servicepeople who are not with thier units. The National Guard does not live in barracks. Duh. He had an enlistment contract. He fulfilled it. He served for six years. Four years more than Al Gore. Six years more than Bill Clinton. He was granted an Honorable Discharge. You guys have actual facts, lets hear them. You want to smear around some implications based on crap you heard from Michael Moore, combine them with your blind irrational hatreds and your ignorance of how the armed forces work and claim it amounts to something. He was honorably discharged having completed more than the minimum service required in his enlistment contract. (Why do the anti-Bushies focus so much on missing records they can't see, and ignore the honorable discharge they can see?) Meanwhile, it is worth noting, there is no credible allegation that Bush shirked his duties during the first four years of his enlistment. The record plainly shows he showed up, completed his training and was considered to be a good pilot. Now, if he was using family connections in order to shirk his duties, would he have had to show up, and be diligent, and really actually learn to fly the F-102? Wouldn't he have been able to get a desk job and show up only when he felt like it? You don't get to be a good pilot by not showing up. Bush showed up. As for the last 18 months of his enlistment - he was discharged early with, remember, his service time requirement completed. The history we have records of show Bush showed up when he was supposed to. Unlike Bill Clinton whom, we have absolute proof, was ordered to report and did not and who DID provably use family connections and lies to avoid service. Go back to the museum stuff. That 170,000 missing items which turned out to be 25 pieces lifted by the Museum director is a LOT more meaty than this drek.
No, I'm saying I don't give a crap about Bush's military record (that's twice now, I'd prefer not saying it a third time), but only an idiot would describe Bush as some son of an obscure Congressman.
Just going by the odds, you have about a 60% chance of it being true if it comes out of Michael Moore's mouth.
For the record, during the timeframe under discussion, Bush Sr. was in Congress, ran for the United States Senate in Texas and lost in 1970. He was then appointed by President Nixon to be the United States ambassador to the United Nations from 1971 to 1973 before leaving to become chairman of the Republican National Committee in 1973-74. http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=B001166 If there's any confusion as to "third generation of leaders," Prescott Bush, father of GHWB and grandfather of GWB, was a United States Senator from Connecticut for two terms (1951-1963). Senator Bush died in 1972, according to the Political Graveyard. How relevant the senator is to this debate, I'll let others hash out. I do note that he joined the Connecticut National Guard in 1916, and consequently saw action in World War I. http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=B001167 I'll also leave it to others to decide the relative prominence/obscurity of ambassador to the UN and head of the RNC.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70817FD3D5D0C708CDDA80994D8404482 And since I have access to nexis, I can give you the entire article. But I won't do that since it would be a TOS violation. So here are some excerpts: Two Democratic senators today called on Gov. George W. Bush to release his full military record to resolve doubts raised by a newspaper about whether he reported for required drills when he was in the Air National Guard in 1972 and 1973. But a review of records by The New York Times indicated that some of those concerns may be unfounded. Documents reviewed by The Times showed that Mr. Bush served in at least 9 of the 17 months in question. Dan Bartlett, a Bush spokesman, said that Mr. Bush had fulfilled his military obligations "or he would not have been honorably discharged." ... A review by The Times showed that after a seven-month gap, he appeared for duty in late November 1972 at least through July 1973. Mr. Bush was assigned to the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron at Ellington Air Force Base near Houston, from November 1969, last flying there on April 16, 1972. In a report dated May 26, 1972, his commander, Maj. William D. Harris Jr., said Mr. Bush had "recently accepted the position as campaign manager for a candidate for the United States Senate." Mr. Bush went to work for Winton M. Blount a few days after Mr. Blount won the Republican primary in Alabama on May 2, 1972. From that time until after the election that November, Mr. Bush did not appear for duty, even after being told to report for training with an Alabama unit in October and November. Mr. Bartlett said Mr. Bush had been too busy with the campaign to report in those months but made up the time later. On Sept. 5, 1972, Mr. Bush asked his Texas Air National Guard superiors for assignment to the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery "for the months of September, October and November." Capt. Kenneth K. Lott, chief of the personnel branch of the 187th Tactical Recon Group, told the Texas commanders that training in September had already occurred but that more training was scheduled for Oct. 7 and 8 and Nov. 4 and 5. But Mr. Bartlett said Mr. Bush did not serve on those dates because he was involved in the Senate campaign, but he made up those dates later. Colonel Turnipseed, who retired as a general, said in an interview that regulations allowed Guard members to miss duty as long as it was made up within the same quarter. Mr. Bartlett pointed to a document in Mr. Bush's military records that showed credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in January, April and May. The May dates correlated with orders sent to Mr. Bush at his Houston apartment on April 23, 1973, in which Sgt. Billy B. Lamar told Mr. Bush to report for active duty on May 1-3 and May 8-10. Another document showed that Mr. Bush served at various times from May 29, 1973, through July 30, 1973, a period of time questioned by The Globe.
To me, this sounds like he was AWOL. If he was absent for 7 months, he obviously didn't make up the dates the same quarter.