yep China always tried but failed miserably usually. so they ended up being conquored by angry neighbors. Its funny he's claiming Mongolians are now Chinese. hey Casualfan, like I asked you before, Define Chinese. It seems to me, every foreigners who conquored China are Chinese now. check your own history books, it all stated tribes like Turks, Mongols, Manchurians as foreigners in Chinese own history book.
Define Chinese? Look at the world map and find the big ass country called China. The people who live there are Chinese. Therefore Tibetans are Chinese, Xinjiang people are Chinese, people from inner mongolia are chinese etc. who are South Koreans? They are the losers who occupy the southern part of the tiny little thing called the Korean peninsula. Since when did you chinese history books. The people from taiwan were just a bunch of retard nationalists, who had their ass whooped by the communists and fled. How dare they occupy our land.
As for those numbers. The less than 20% number sounds like the number of people who fled in 1949 and their descendants. How about those that were already here? The vast majority of them are the descendants of those who have been migrating from the Mainland (largely from Fujian Province) since at least the 15th century. However, it seems I once made this point in another thread. As Bill Archer seems to like to, you ignore points made that goes against what you so fervently want to believe. The language spoken in Taiwan by most people is Taiwanese. Strangly enough, it is almost identical to a language spoken in Fujian called Minnanhua. Coincidence? How else would you explain this? The vast majority of the people in Taiwan are Han. The largest minority is Hakka (another group with its roots in mainland China.) After that come the Malayo-Polynesian aboriginies. Are you going to ignore this again?!?
Is this supposed to be an intelligible sentence? I have also responded to this one, another response that was ignored by you. Taiwan became a county within Fujian Province in 1683. In 1887, it was made a province by the Qing government. I am sure it disappoints you to know that you are off by, oh say, 204 years!!! But, I am sure you will simply ignore this fact as you did the last time I posted it.
http://home.att.net/~jf-barnes/ota.html This gives some information regarding the desire of some Okinawans to revive their independence. Keep in mind, the Ryukyus have been a part of Japan for a shorter period than either Taiwan or Tibet has been a part of China.
I have to agree with you on this point. With these two very important exceptions, Japan does not have an aggressive history. However, China also does not have a history of trying to conquer their neighbors either. China was always more concerned with taking care of things at home rather than imposing its will on its neighbors. There are many Chinese (and other Asians) who do fear a resurgence of Japanese militarism. You can't blame them. It is not like the upper echelons of Japanese society has been particularly apolegetic concerning the events of 1897-1945. If you were to walk the streets of Tokyo in 1890, I imagine you would have gotten the same reaction. However, they would be on the road to empire a short five years later.
Anyone who is a citizen of China is a Chinese by citizenship. Traditionally, anyone who learned the Chinese language and adopted their ways was considered a Chinese and would distinguished by the rest of the world 'barbarians' by their ability to comprehend the superior Chinese culture. If you look at a map of China, since most of Manchuria and about half of Mongolia are a part of China, that makes then Chinese. There is a misperception of many that the Chinese are a single ethnic group. They are not. The majority group in China is the Han, but if you say that the Hui, Hakka and other groups in China are not Chinese, you are ignorent of Chinese history and the roles of these groups in Chinese history. China's greatest mariner, for example, was a Hui. Two of China's greatest emperors were Manchu (Qianlong and Kangxi), and another was Mongolian (Kubilai Kahn).
what do you mean by this? "Since when did you chinese history books." In Chinese own history books, they stated Mongolians are foreigners, Turks are foreigners, manchurians are also foreigners. ok, so they are all chinese just cuz they live in China? in that theory, there's no palestines in Israel, cuz they live in Israel. There's also no Koreans in Japan cuz they live in Japan. there's no Chinese in Korea cuz they also live in Korea. how simple is that? Im really happy for you. you live in a very simple world.
You are the one looking at this simplistically. There are two issues here. Nationality and ethnic identification. I am an American by citizenship, but I am French by ethnic background. If you are a Korean in Japan (assuming you are a Japanese citizen), you are a Japanese by citizenship, but you are an ethnic Korean. Same in China. If you are in Nei Menggu and you are a Mongolian by ethnic identification, you are still a Chinese citizen and therefore a Chinese. There is NO Chinese ethnic group. There are Han, Hakka, Hui, etc, but no specifically Chinese group (though in western countries, they are often identified that way for the sake of convenience).
Original taiwanese were forced to naturalize to china (there are several records of this). Mexican indian tribes speaks spanish, and we all know they are not from Spain, they just forgot their native language by stupid conquror's policy) Hakka are Han tribes who fled to south when Northern nomadic tribes invaded and conquored northern part of China. Its kinda funny most Hakka think their base root is Tang dynasty. even Tang emperor Lee wasnt even real Chinese. he was half Turk, and his sons married turks and Persians. so lets see. China invade to India and force them to speak only Chinese, and you will claim all Indians are Chinese 100years later too.
Who are you identifying as original Taiwanese? The aboriginies or the Chinese who immigrated beginning from the 15th century. My mother in law was born in Taiwan and is in the later. She definately looks like a Chinese and not a Malayo-Polynesian aboriginie. The aborigines do not even speak Taiwanese, making the claim you made above absolutely absurd on is face.
All Ching dynasty did was getting rid of Ming's generals out of Taiwan cuz it was threat to them. Ching was northern nomadic tribes so basically they werent much interested on sea or islands, they basically ignored Taiwan (they had policy that prohibits Chinese from most part of Taiwan) If Taiwan was part of Fujian province for 200years since 1683, how come native Taiwanese fought back against Ching officials who were sent from Peking numorous times?
Not that they would, but if it were still a part of China, they would retain their ethnic identity (there is no single Indian ethnic identity), and they would be citizens of China, so yes, they would also be Chinese.
what is the look of Chinese btw? Chinese are mixture of all bunch of tribes like Turks, Mongols, Manchurians, persians, etc etc. for asians, only tribes who has distinctive property is Mongolian tribes. (with mongolian spots, some chinese from northern area have it but most in south dont)
Have you ever been to Taiwan? It is easy to tell the difference between a Han and an aboriginie simply by looking at them. Are you aware that Han and Hakka had been migrating to Taiwan as early as the 15th century and pushed most of the tribes to the mountains and the rocky east coast? And don't forget, most aboriginies don't even speak Taiwanese.
we once owned you and your land once, so you are part of us. is this Chinese philosophy? In that theory.. there are no chinese in Korea. cuz they all speak korean and are korean citizen??
The fact that they had to fight against Qing officials points out the fact that it was in fact a part of Fujian Province. I guess the parts of Russia that are malcontent right now aren't really a part of Russia, are they? As for the policy prohibiting Chinese from most of Taiwan. This was at times true and at other times not. Interestingly, though at times, the central authorities in Beijing prohibited immigration from the Mainland to Taiwan County, local officials in Fujian encouraged such immigration. As a result, despite official policies against it, there is considerable immigration from Mainland Fujian to Taiwan County during the 1700s.
I just showed these comments to my wife and translated them for my mother in law. They think you are need to learn a little more about Taiwan's history. I will add that you need to read a little less of George Kerr and his followers and consult more general histories of China (including Taiwan).
I think you have a reading comprehension problem. I said that there is a difference between ethnicity and nationality. Can't you get it? You can be a citizen of Korea, yet be ethinically Han. Heck, China has a Korean minority whose rights are protected in Manchuria. You even see the Korean language on signs all throughout Jilin and Liaoning Provinces. Are they not Chinese? Of course they are Chinese. They are Chinese by citizenship, Korean by ethnicity.
Oh im sure you can tell their ethnic background just by their looks. can you tell difference between Malaysians and Chinese? some yes, some no. its kinda funny with Chinese philosophy. someone invade you and conquore you, then they are part of you. You conquore others then they are part of you. sounds like greedy philosophy. no wonder China was conquored by so many foreigners and people didnt care much, cuz one way or another, they become part of you.
THATS WHAT IVE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE POINT. All of you were saying Taiwan should be part of China cuz they are Chinese ethnically. When others talk about Tibet and Ughur, You all are saying they are Chinese by citizenship not ethnically. Make up your mind, you cant have both. Like you said Chinese immigrated to Taiwan. If you immigrate to other place, you become part of them, its not they become part of you. Should I apply greedy Chinese philosophy on Taiwan? Chinese invaded Taiwan and conquored Taiwan, so Chinese become part of Taiwan. (same reason why manchurians are Chinese now) what would you do if someone immigrate to your land and claim it as their land later?
In 1624, the Dutch invaded Taiwan, according to Dutch records, there were about 100,000 Taiwanese surrendered. In 1661, Koxinga took place of the Dutch, about 130,000~200,000 Taiwanese surrendered. Among them, there were 12,727 household units, about 40,000~60,000 Taiwanese were forced to be converted into the Han (the Chinese). These aboriginal were the first ones who were forced to give up their Taiwanese nationalities. In 1683, Ching, the Manchus, replaced Koxinga. In 1730, a report made by a general of Ching that surrendered Taiwanese were at least 600,000. http://www.taiwannation.com.tw/english.htm Ive been searching Taiwan websites, and they were all telling different story than yours.
People make mistakes you know. So i skipped a word, sue me. Now answer the question, since when did you start reading Chinese history books. Tibetan people living in tibet are tibetan, but since tibet is a part of china, they are chinese as well. xi zang ren shi zhong guo ren! There's no Koreans in Japan because the japanese are afraid you'll kidnap people, like your Northern brothers!
check your own country. Chinese in rural area constantly kidnap females to get married, its a huge problem, its on chinese news quite often.(it was on CCTV several times already) The problem is they dont think its crime or anything, its just a culture. Mobs kidnap girls from city and sell those girls to farmers to get married. GongAns try to arrest people who was involved in kidnapping, then whole village people get angry about it and stop Gongans from doing their job. Ive read several chinese old books (history books like han su, and some Íîí_'s books like ÖååÞ)