This is so dumb. Did I create the news? So we are to avoid any "negative" news? Frankly, a bunch of negative stuff went down. That's reality. Sue me for posting about it. While I understand that the emotional attachment to a positive outcome would cause some posters to react negatively to "negative" news, I feel that tendency should be resisted by the greater BigSoccer community. In the end, the outcome wasn't perfect, but the stadium renovations are now on the way.
Terraces are still in the plans at this moment in time. They might not make it in the final installation but the plans are proceeding to install them in at least three sections. I don't have a bojack source as I will continue to trust the information I recieve directly from the people involved in the renovations on a day to day basis. Mods should lock the thread before it devolves along the similar path as its predecessors. 1) Portland starts down a path towards something. 2) Bright posts only negative news. 3) Goal is achieved 4) Bright can't handle it, and thread is locked.
Right. So when the urban renewal funding fell apart, or when the baseball stadium portion of the deal fell apart on numerous occasions, or when the designs got scaled back due to lowered funding, or any other host of setbacks ... we are all to expect only "positive" news to be posted. The only reason any of these threads have been locked in the past is because some emotionally invested posters start attacking. You've achieved your goal of disjointing the discussion. I believed from the outset that we'd have an "Ongoing Portland Stadium Discussion" thread broken up into Part I, Part II, etc over time. But that never happened because of all the complainers.
There are tons of articles out today in every news outlet bringing POSITIVE news, because really thats all there is today. Yet you only posted bojacks blog. But when things were bad you posted every single article written on it from here to China. If you truely swayed with the wind on the deal it wouldn't be that way. Kindly EADIAF.
I would post articles with definitive bits of news, which I would quote. Such as the dollar amounts in a deal or the dates of upcoming city council meetings. There were often multiple articles on the same general topic but with unique details. I already posted a few pages back that the city council meeting would take place on January 27th, before Marquis posted the "done deal" article. So it's not like I ignored this news. I posted the bojack article because it broadens the context. If I say that there is still opposition in the city, you will say I am a "troll" or that I don't know what I am talking about because I live 2 hours up the highway. But there really still is opposition and anger. This could have ramifications to the ongoing process as there are still design hearings to be had and a good neighbor agreement to be rewritten. It may also impact the standing of the team in the community. I am sure you will respond with more accusations of me only being "negative". If a person doesn't face reality, he won't be able to overcome the obstacles in front of him. There is still another year until the Timbers begin their MLS tenure, and the Paulsons will have to use that time to overcome and "market away" any of the ill will that remains.
There is always ill will in a city when public funds are used for something like this i would imagine. Look at the crazy surrounding the construction of Safeco Field or Qwest for a Seattle example. You can still hear people complaining about how we voted against the stadium and it got built anyways or some garbage like that. You hear it all the time around here. However, I'm pretty sure we can call the stadiums pretty successful regardless of the ill will in the city right? I'm pretty sure The people that are against the stadium are not the target audience for the stadium. This is the Northwest. Not everyone is going to like it. We disagree about EVERYTHING around here. That doesn't mean the Timbers are going to be a failure. The soccer fans of the city will come out to see their team and the naysayers are going to stay on the internet and naysay . Today is a day to celebrate with our fellow soccer fans. Lets worry about selling the team to the bloggers on Bojack, whoever the hell they are, on another day.
Normally I keep my nose out of this stuff but phrases like this really grind my gears. You did not post an article, you posted a blog. The person that posted that "article" is obviously biased and is not an impartial reporter in this case. For something to be considered a news article there has to be at least a shred of impartiality and should not contain conjecture. What you posted fails to meet that on every level, and is probably on par with a thread you'd find in the Rivalries forum.
You take that back. As one of the originators of the Rivalries Forum, our discourse well above the noise provided by the pseudo-media of the blogosphere or even worse, the comments section of any blog or newspaper website. Those are places where intelligent discourse doesn't go to die. It goes there to get raped, murdered and raped again.
Between 20-22k on regular game dates. For big games like Seattle/Vancouver/Henry or friendlies it will be 24k with obstructed view seats behind the screen revealed.
Ahhh Bright whatcha ya going to do now? Still crying and mewing I see you little knob-gobbler. Deal is done. Signed, sealed and delivered. Watched a bunch of construction equipment roll into PGE the other day. It was a lovely sight. Really, BOJACK? The only thing you could find out there is that irrelevant jackhole? Bright, bright, bright. Get a life. This is gonna be the coolest stadium in the league as it has the central location and history of a 90 year old plus building with the modern amenities of a newer stadium. It is going to be the loudest stadium in the league (for those who don't know the stadium is basically 80% below street level so that it is a giant bowl that noise gets trapped in and it has a wooden roof that covers 90% of the stands so the noise REALLY stays in.). Seriously, Bright their are meds to help your condition.
Amen, can't wait to go down to Portland myself to see the wonderful stadium during the Sounders away game.
The Portland political climate is different than in Seattle. There is a lot more populist angst. You can see that by the way this deal was done. The facts of the deal had to be obfuscated and sold as "shielding the taxpayers from risk" and that the Paulsons are making private contributions when really it's just moving money around on paper. There is also the presence of the Paulson family, whose patriarch is not the most loved person in this country right now, especially in Portland, a city with one of the highest unemployment rates in the country and a population that by-and-large hates George Bush. The deal in Portland is not 100% done. First, the vote still has to happen, which I am sure will be 3-2 or 4-1, but you never know. We'll see how the testimony next week goes. There is also a lot more political procedure to tackle. The upcoming vote is not the last nail. The two stadiums did work out for Seattle, although I still retain some anger over the way Safeco Field was rammed through against everyone's wishes. I don't believe the Timbers will be a failure. There is no reason to take any of the "negative" news nor what I am saying about the remaining ill will and try to fit it into a black-and-white perspective. It's just that the way this process played out has generated more ill will than what you would normally expect from a stadium deal. Again, the presence of the Paulson family surely played a part. But the mayor is still under fire for his scandal, he appears on the surface to be a shill for corporate development interests a la Nickels, these "tough economic times" are tougher in Portland, the city has endured the results of recent high-profile development deals gone bad, and this deal has not been presented to the public in an honest manner. They had to do what they had to do to get it done, but now it will be harder to make this a team the whole city can rally around. My vision and hope has always been that the PNW would embrace soccer as the number one sport for the whole region, and in turn we could be a beacon for the whole country. So while the Timbers are not set up to fail, they have set themselves up with more work to do in establishing themselves in the hearts and minds of the people.
i'm not one of those that thinks you wanted the stadium to fail. I know that you are probably as excited as anyone that Portland and Vancouver are joining MLS. However, i also think you're putting too much stock in an internet blog saying the deal is bad for the city. Thats almost like being worried because the comments section of the Newspaper article is filled with anti-stadium rants. Its the internet. Only the crazies post on the internet... We won't know how the city embraces the team as a whole until we get closer to the start of the season.
LOLZ at Bright trying to tell us how our politics work cause he did some internetz reading and saw some nasty comments on a Blog. Hey Bright, I've been involved in Oregon politics for over 15 years as a professional. This is nothing. Wait till they start talking about Bikes or Dog Parks or renaming a street after Cesar Chavez. Now THAT is some ill will. Bright, if you think this process has generated more ill-will than normal for stadium projects you need to fire up google and do a little research. Start with Salt Lake. This has been a minor kerfluffle for PDX. Seriously. All things considered I am surprised it hasn't been far, far worse. Bright is what is known as a "concern troll". For those who are in politics/active on political blogs you will recognize the term. Essentially he is your opponent who feigns concern but uses language and terms to essentially undermine your effort, create doubt and stick a shiv in your back. The last sentence in his post was a classic case of that: "So while the Timbers are not set up to fail, they have set themselves up with more work to do in establishing themselves in the hearts and minds of the people. " You see there is zero evidence to support his assertion that the Timbers have a problem with the "hearts and minds of the people" but you see by expressing "concern" that they have alot of work to do in "establishing themselves in the hearts and minds of the people", he is feeding his own narrative which is pulled out of thin air. Fox News does this all the time to great affect.
I have gotten into the habit of complimenting what I think or know with some citation because of how some people keep trying to deflect and diminish my observations with personal attacks. My observation is based on being in town and interacting with the people who live there. If I just said what I know without some complimentary source, do you think people like Finnegan would let that slide without trying to ad hominem me? Bojack is the most popular blogger in Portland, anyways, so it's not like I just found some random guy to cite. Both weeklies are opposed and have done some really good investigative reporting about the deal. The progressive political base is also opposed, which has really hurt Sam Adams politically. Out of all the local media outlets, only the Oregonian is for it, but I think that is because they are on the brink of going out of business and need some sports stories to write about. I know. You've been telling us that for the last 8 years. So says the professional spin-doctor. You've amassed quite the brood of freckle-faced dittoheads down there, too.
I kind of like it. It's got the kitsch of a lower division English stadium built in stages over time and a classic American ballpark (yeah, I know why). Definitely a refreshing departure from the cookie cutter SSS's.
I'm pretty optimistic that the Timbers will blow the projections out of the water. I hope that if this is the case, and MLS loosens the single-entity structure down the road, that this doesn't have a chilling effect on Paulson opening the purse strings to put a strong team on the field.
what I like about this new eastern stand, is that it seems designed in a way amenable to an upper level of stand in the distant future. With structural supports where they have been placed, and the level/size of the canopy, it looks like the canopy could be removed, a row of supports added where the fence currently is, and an upper deck could be built to expand 10-20 years down the road if demand is high enough. if so, it's a well thought out layout, not exceeding current demand/budget, while forseeing future needs. I love evolving stadia so much more than new construction.