you changed words. before you said "talent". Now, your saying "Player". Which is it? And you'll just deny that "Player X" has world class anything and then pass it off as fact. Whats the point of answering?
I'll define "world class", however arbitrarily, as any player excluding GKs, under 30 years of age who's worth in excess of $10M on the transfer market. (The reason I qualified age is because someone like Bergkamp is a "WCP" but is not worth any transfer fee at his age)
Name one world class player we have produced. I don't need to be an anorak who pores over youth soccer results to see what type of players this country produces. Actually I can. That is how players are judged in this world. They are judged by their environment. Players in well recognised leagues are rated higher than players in less recognised leagues. Except in this forum apprently. 1. You don't watch the Metros much do you? The next time Eddie dribbles himself into a corner (whuch he does a LOT) tell me its tactically brilliant. You see that is the problem I have with the YA hype machine. No one looks at anything in its totallity. People here seem content to just cherry pick what they want to see and hold that out as the norm. The kid has talent but a lot of time he does some incredibly naive things on the field and as I said the major difference between the two players is the level of football intelligence. Fabergas has a well developed sense of it while Eddie is simply not close to being there yet. 2. This is not about who is the better attacking midfielder its about the relative stature of each player in their respective teams and what the quality of said team says about the relative level of development of each player. Listen he could have the best damn record of any 20 year old and that doesn't make him the best in much the same way some other 20 year old can have a better record than EJ and not be anywhere as good as EJ. The fact of the matter is EJ is an excellent MLS forward and going by past history that has yet to translate into being a dominant player on the world stage. I am sorry that is complete and utter nonesense. The real level of MLS is clear from the players we send overseas. We send very competent players like Bocanegra and Beasely as well as very average players like Mcbride and Stern John. Its a mixed bag. Lets not lie to ourselves here. I have a very good reason. Our youth teams do well but we simply do not produce the kind of players other nations do. Whether you want to ridiculous like the other poster and mention Argentina and Brazil or more reasonable and look at nations like Sweden and Cameroon and Nigeria. We have yet to produce any of that kind of player. Except in this forum. If you question the players level at all you end with a couple dozen points of negative rep. Is it not possible to level criticism at our players legitimate weaknesses without everyone being up in arms about it? Does everyone have to drink the same kool-aid? Why are we insecure about our players being critiqued? We are not producing bum players. We are producing some good players. Its like there is no critical discussion of players at all on this board.
Yes that is the answer. We are all full of crap. Dominance at the MLS level has translated well to the next level in so many instances.
Players hwo have shown the ability to distinguish them by show a level above far beyond the average player at the highest levels.
Is there a difference? Donavan is a player and he is a talent. Whats the big deal its clear what I am talking about. Its not about having world class anything. Either a player is woirld class or they are not. No player is partially world class.
It makes me a person in search of discussion who is tired of seeing the same old glossed over hype that passes for analysis.
I wuldn't define it that way. To me its more talent based that worth. Some english players or Italian players can be worth that much simply by virtue of the fact that it is easier for said players to qualify for play in their respective countries as opposed to a foreign player. But they might not be world class.
proof positive that Rommul, is a casulty of his own hype. Meaning he thinks he knows alot more than he actually does.
It has to do with the fact that these countries routinely produce quality talent top class talkent that the best compete for whereas we have yet to produce a single such player. Its an attempt to get people to put soem of this all in perspective.
Actually, this is how incredibly lazy evaluators of talent go about their work. Like Real Madrid. You're also battling straw men whom you believe have made incredibly different arguments than they have made. Look, you may detest some out-and-out homerism or excessive enthusiasm on the part of US fans. You may think it's delusional. However, the vast majority of responses in this thread are not at all delusional, or excessively hyping of American prospects -- yet you throw a blanket over everyone and say we're all ridiculous. Many of us spend time on BigSoccer specifically because it's a place to be enthusiastic about US Soccer, so seeing people be overly enthusiastic can be fun. In any case, even if you think it's excessive enthusiasm, the world doesn't need you to point out how stupid someone is when they're being enthusiastic. It just makes you look like a dick. If you are one, fine, keep it up. If you're not, then think about other ways you could respond, like just ignoring overly optimistic posts.
whats even better is that in this same thread is that Rommul said this: Question: "Names of 5 African folks 20 and under who are clearly above Eddie development-wise?" Answer: "I have no idea. These palyers are all under wraps." apparently, Eddie will not be allowed to develop as a player anymore, and there fore will be a few levels below 22 - 24 year olds. He's also never heard of a 22 year old named DaMarcus Beasley. Who's playing as well as any yong player at the highest levels in the world....as a forward/winger.
I'm not the one who is claiming there is no difference between a world-class player and a world-class talent.
right, Bayer Leverkusen, a squad that competes at the highest levels, wants to feature Landon Donovan becuase Landon can't compete at that level. PSV likes to start DMB in champion's league because its obvious that he to can't compete at that level
That's true, but most young players from Africa are raw and undisciplined. They usually need a couple years in Europe before they become "world class" if they make that level at all. Now the US hasn't yet produced a "world class" player, but it's coming very soon. I believe that within 5 or 6 years that out of the group of LD, Beasley, EJ, Gaven, Spector, Howard, Dempsey, Adu, Szetela, Onyewu(sp?), etc, a couple will be considered "world class". I mean, really, this is American these type of players don't grow on trees and MLS is only in it's 9th season of existence, give it some more time.
Africa also has about 25 different countries. another fact that seems to have escaped our friend here. for some reason, he groups Africa as a single nation. Or considers USA a continents
a few more of our young players that had to make decisions that inolved some bigtime clubs: Danny Szetela and Freddy Adu. No one competed over them either right Rommul?
There's not much difference for the WCPs on their labor status because by definition they are better than competition - other non-Europeans that are not worth a $10+M transfer fee - to qualify for the limited non-Euro spots. The worst thing you can say about their work rights is that they may forced by the labor rules to play for a different team or a different league, which would actually lower their transfer value. In any case, like I said, my $10M (or 10M Euros) price is arbitrary but still very reasonable. Assets have value and people establish value by monetary means. You can quibble over the amount proposed but not in the essense of money being a good indicator ... the other stuff walks.