Democratic elections in Iraq

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by verybdog, Nov 9, 2003.

  1. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Is that possible? I am very skeptic.

    Election under a new constitution that is still in the Microsoft word processor.

    Election under a new constitution that nobody in Iraq knows what it means.

    After 200+ years of elections, the US still has some politcal disasters like the one happened in Florida 2000. How do you expect the one that is coming up in Iraq?

    No way this is not going to work.

    Democratic elections in Iraq? What a crazy idea.
  2. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
    Yeah, we all know that you have no faith in democracy. Florida wasn't a disaster. We had a system in place to handle it, and it was handled in accordance with the Constitution of the United States. Those who say that the system in the U.S. was on the verge of a meltdown at that time are guilty of sensationalist journalism.

    Are you saying that the Arab people can't handle democracy? I know you say that about the Chinese people. Frankly, people who make that argument are racist. To suggest that people can't handle democracy and that they are better led by some dictator is rank racism. If you don't like democracy and free speech so much, why don't you go to where neither are practiced, like Saudi Arabia, Burma, or China!
  3. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    Lighten up, Ludhai. The Iraqi's don't have the democratic institutions in place, nor do they have the economy that would make democracy most efficient. Hence, the fear is that the message can be that democracy fails.

    Individually, any fool can handle democracy. We in the US elected on oaf. And our economic and democratic instiutions will mean that our democracy will survive him, just like we survived Clinton.
  4. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
    Gee, and until the end I thought you were referring to the oaf that we elected in 1992. :)
  5. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Can they handle democray? You kidding me?

    You think democray is something like Viagra that can give you an instant erection?

    Not for another 100 years.

    They're just not ready for it. Or maybe they just don't like it.

    You just can't jam that into their throat.
  6. Ferris

    Ferris New Member

    Mar 31, 2003
    We did it with the Japanese and that worked out okay.
  7. Makno

    Makno New Member

    Jun 20, 2002
    Not a very good example. As much as I love Japan and the people here, I'm not sure how firmly democracy has really taken root.

    The ruling party, the LDP, has been in power for around 50 years now, with only two very brief interruptions. Eventhough the economy has been on the ropes for 10 years and the LDP has no ideas or intentions to solve our economic problems, they win every election without even trying hard. They just won another one yesterday as a matter of fact. And the strange thing is, the main opposition party are all former members of the LDP who left in a power struggle gone bad.

    But if what you meant was that the US instituted a system that was stable, that's true. I'm just not sure how much the notion of democracy has gripped the populace.
  8. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    But the LDP could be voted out of office next time around, and they'd leave office peacefully without attempting a coup d'etat or something like that. If I was a Japanese citizen I could start my own political party tomorrow and theoretically win a majority in the next parliamentary elections--that's what democracy is. Just because the Japanese people choose not to vote the LDP out of office, doesn't mean they don't have the option of doing so (and Japan's economy, while perhaps not as great as it usually is, is still the second largest--or is it third?--in the world).

    Of course, that parenthetical reminds me that the 2nd and 3rd best economies in the world are both countries that had democracy "shoved down their throats" by the US (and, in Germany's case, Britain and France), and democracy took hold despite the fact that neither of these countries really had ever had it (Germany had the Weimar government briefly, but it was doomed from the outset and the only real question was whether it would be replaced by an ultra-rightist dictator or an ultra-leftist dictator).

    Can democracy take hold in Iraq? Certainly. Will it? Only if the United States and our allies have the intestinal fortitude to see the job thru instead of cutting and running for domestic political reasons. If Bush sticks it out in Iraq and turns that country into a pillar of democracy in the Arab world, he will be remembered as one of our greatest Presidents--even if he does not serve a second term. If he cuts and runs he will be remembered as a Clinton-esque failure, even if he does win a second term.
  9. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Yes, but Japan is not an Islamic country and doesn't have its own religion.
  10. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    Iraqis are ready for democratic elections. The question is whether the US is ready to let them occur.

    For instance, the Soma cigarette factory, a state-owned company, held their own internal democratic elections back in June to elect a new Director General and a Factory Manager, to replace the former Ba'athist leaders who were ousted and not welcome back.

    Of course, they did this in the face of a ban by Paul Bremer on such factory elections.
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the great tradition of "do you know who the Viet Cong are," I'll ask, have you heard of Shintoism?

    You are really a total idiot.
  12. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Shinto is more of a loose system of beliefs and attitudes, not really a religion. Shinto has no known founder, nor are there sacred books comparable to the Bible or Koran. It's just a Japanese tradition, and therefore it's not a religion.

    Japanese thought the emperor is devine, the ultimate symbol of Shintoism. Once he was forced out of that position by American at end of the world war II, Japanese has become the people of soullessness and be converted by the US.

    But in Iraq, how do you force out a non-existence figure called Allah?

    Comparing Islam to Shinto, superdave is totally idiotic.
  13. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, I think a better question may be if we can handle their democracy? What if they elect leaders that support Al-Qaeda, oppose US policy in the middle east, or actively support terrorists living, training, and mobilizing on their home soil. It's very simple to say that Iraqis can't handle democracy, but far from accurate.

    Maybe we should be asking if they are allowed to proceed with democratic elections, will they elect leaders who are willing to work with the United States and friendly our interests or will they elect leaders that undermine the US at every opportunity? And can we stay out of it so that Iraq can enjoy their right to self-determination?
  14. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    I really don't understand what these Washington elites are thinking? Why insist converting every country into a democray?

    You think we don't have enough headaches here caused by the system of democracy already?

    What are the benefits to America trying to convert everyone to democracy? I see very few. Don't tell me it's out of the concern of altruism.

    If you befriend to a dictator, you have taken care of the whole country. But if you befriend with indiviual voters, you've got nothing but headaches.

    I think it's serious mistake on America's part to ask Russia to become democratic; it's a bigger mistake on America's part to ask China to become a democracy.

    Why? because democray will encourage an economic system that will eat up and compete with us for the natural resources like a cancer cell.

    To dominate the whole world, you really want evreybody stays in the 18 century.

    We'll be very sorry for that stupid idea one day.
  15. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    And of course, whether or not the Iraqis are ready for democratic elections, it won't much matter if the US goes and kills the elected or appointed leaders:

    U.S. Troops Kill Iraqi Municipal Leader in Baghdad
    In Baghdad, U.S. soldiers have shot dead a member of the U.S.-appointed local Iraqi council in Sadr City. The council leader, Muhammed Kaabi, was killed while he was approaching the council offices Sunday. The U.S. claims he attempted to take a weapon from a soldier when the troops stopped him and asked to search his car. Local residents said he never attempted to grab a weapon. One city hall employee said, "It was killing for the sake of killing. It was not self-defense."

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