A domino effect that pro-israel neocons didn't expect? http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051222/wl_nm/mideast_egypt_brotherhood_dc Hmmm....how long before we hear a leading political leader in Iraq supporting holocaust revisionists and spouting off against jews and zionists? Let Freedom to deny the holocaust reign! (I do note that there are no threads about this 24hrs after the news came out. As opposed to multiple threads 5 minutes after Iranian leaders said it. Is it because Iranians and Palestinians get denounced and ridiculed in kneejerk fashion here, or just because there are no outspoken egyptians here? Is Egypt like Iran's ugly younger sister - good personality but generally ignored?)
Well, when you consider how well the Muslim Brotherhood did, considering election regulations that Iran/Venezuala would envy, I'd say Mubarak does not come close to speaking for most of the electorate.
This kind of outright racism is surprising coming from any political leader. But the history of the region shows that racism against Jews and Israel is not only expected but endorsed.
Fine with me. Those ideas are out there and until the people who express them have some political say, they don't need to be addressed, the people who hold them don't need to be educated. Ending the denial of the holocaust and explaining why systematically killing 6 million of one race is worse than indiscriminately killing 6 million of many races is something that needs to be done. Middle Eastern leaders have been using such ideas as boogey men to scare westerners into supporting their oppressive regimes. The truth is we have nothing to be afraid of, in the long run, when confronting any idea.
A bit because this news is not useful as a propaganda tool (as it would be if it came from Syria, Palestine, Iran or some parts of Lebanon, a bit because those words didn't come from a political figure with effective powers in the state.
Hatred is the most correct definition. They hate so much they end denying all the enemy's tragedies (happens also to the most wildeyed israelis/proisraelis, for example, when they try to tell ppl that palestinians don't exist or that the nakbah didn't happen) even such a big tragedy for mankind like the holocaust. Holocaust which they see (or perceive) often used as a mere political tool to justify what in their eyes is just an invasion of arab's land.
Update: there are no pyramids in Egypt! What about those big things over there? They're just piles of stone blocks.
This point is valid, though to be fair you cannot really compare the power the quasi-dictator Mubarak holds with Ahmadinejad's one (Khamenei has still the ultimate word in things that matter).
Pretty telling that you equate the creation of the state of Israel and the dispute over the history of the Palestinians with the Holocaust.
Pretty telling that you have read my words as an equation "holocaust = history of palestinians". I guess you wanted to highlight how the phenomenon of using the holocaust as a political tool to quit any critical and rational analysis of the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and the perversions of truth it generated in both parts (no equation of magnitude), is still alive. I am not equating anything, it would be stupid to do so. Also because the holocaust with the history of the palestinians has at best an indirect relationship. Where palestinians played no part if not that of the human obstacle barring the way to reach a perceived higher goal, the expendable sheep (for the supposed arab bretherns*) or the scapegoats of others' wrongs (europe). What i was highlighting is the propension many "fighters", also forumfighters, have to belittle (if not deny) the enemy's tragedies. A more thoughtful, less simplicistic and caricaturized, take at why many arab haters of israel go so far to define holocaust as a myth. Those extremists see the holocaust sometimes used/misused as a political tool (as you did in your post, for example) and their hatred drives them to see it from that perspective only and try to destroy it. No matter being honest and fair, the aim is to destroy what they perceive as a propaganda weapon of the hated enemy. I know that saying they are just racist evil is a way to avoid any rational motive of the hatred because, probably, a rational analisys would have to take into account the possible faults of zionism. And that's where many would feel to break some sort of taboo and commit capital sin. Anyway It's not like tragedies are not to be acknowledged if they are not the same magnitude of holocaust. In order to prevent any further discussion. Knowing the history of israel's birth also from a palestinian perspective is not a way to deny the actual right to exist of israel rather a way to understand the "savage" palestinians and their hatred and why the right of the palestinian state to exist has no less dignity and importance than the Israeli one. In this mess of counterposed hatred and counterposed ethnic/religious selfishness I was favourably impressed by the way the PLO strongly rejected Ahmadinejad's statements concerning the holocaust. * Many arab states' concern in the first war was to gain land at the expenses of palestinians and the theoretic state which should have take birth alongside israel.
Please tell me you're qualifying this statement with,"at this time". Racism has been used for many,many political purposes in many,many countries.
Well it has been a matter of policy for the arab states and Iran (since 1979 for Iran) for racism against Israel since the nation was formed.
Wait a sec, by "that region" do you mean central Europe and Russia and to a lesser extent America and the UK? Because the holocaust that we are ever so freaquently are reminded of didn't quite happen in the Middle East now did it?
You wrote that Israelis don't believe that the Nakbah happened. This is nonsensical. the Nakbah is a day of mourning where the arabs remember the day that Israel was created as a state. So you deny that the Grand Mufti, representing and with the acquiesence of the arab street entered into an alliance with the Nazis. So Israel belittles the Palestinian aspirations by a)offering them just about everything they want, b) by unilaterally returning land that was won legitimately in a defensive war c) at every turn has tried to negotiate peace and in fact has successfully negotiated peace accords with Jordan and Egypt. How many peace accords have the pals entered into? Again nonsensical. People deny that the holocaust happened because they don't like what happened after the holocaust. Give me a break! We've heard the arguments and the lies and Israel has still tried to negotiate with liars, criminals and terrorists. Seems like they've gone pretty far. Farther than anyone else has done in similar circumstances and farther than anyone else would in these circumstances. "Understanding" terrorists is a mistake that Europe and many others keep making. You can't understand terrorists. You can't understand someone that feels it is ok to blow up innocent women, children and men. You go try to "understand" them in your country. We'll keep fighting them and try to win that war while you "understand" them. So far all Israeli attempts to negotiate with terrorists has led us to where we are today. Every time Israel gives something up, its not enough. Every time Israel defends itself, it's not justified. We understand what you are really saying.
Lets not leave off the wars against Israel by the Arab and Muslim world or the constant terrorism agains Israel supported by Iran. All in the ME.