Take that fans of unbalanced attacking football! I liked Portugal if they were up against the Czechs, but I actually like their chances less against the Greeks. This will be a very low scoring game. Both teams have got this far with tactics and defense, really how Italy tries to play. I knew defense and ball possession would win over shallow attacking football in the end. Both clubs play the game partly like a chess match, all out attacking football loses this intriguing aspect of the sport.
Wild attacking won't win championships. However, just looking at World Cups, the past champs have almost always been the one that was the better attacking side. As Scolari said two years ago after the WC, most teams are tactically astute, especially the farther you go in a tournament so tactics often cancel each other out. You then need some talented players that can turn the game with their flair and creativity to win.
Brazil is a rare exception, they just have too much speed and offensive talent to be stopped by teams with good defense. But if you look at the finalists and winners for these competitions, Germany, France, Italy, they all have done it with defense more than anything else. With France this year, their defense and tactics were dreadfully below the level of when they won the world cup and when they beat Italy in the last Euro. Organized tactics can outshine talent in most cases.
Let's see if the Greeks win the final first. It's very tight. The Greek defensive wall has been superb. Dellas, particularly, is one of the top defenders of the competition. Portugal has the attacking flair, and the ability to get within the penalty box on dribbles which always raises my hackles. TWG
That's why Portugal is gona win!! The best defenders in the tournment, powerfull midfield and creative wings.
Nuno Valente, Miguel, Andrade and especially Ricardo Carvalho, I think they are in the top15 defenders of the tournament, being Ricardo Carvalho the #1, he is awsome, I can't remember an unique mistake from him. The greeks are very good also, but as Belgian guy said, they have almost the whole team defending lol. I'm also impressed with Ashley Cole in portugal-england match.
Portugal have played well defensively in this tournament as well, which has surprised me to some degree. Italy has good offensive players too, but that doesn't mean you have to all-out attack. However, Greece has played more like Italy in the way the style thay have played. Portugal plays well defensively by maintaining a high rate of ball possession (they are best in the world at this). Italy and Greece do not take that approach and often their opponents have more possession, but yet, they limit the good offensive chances of opponents.
No, we suck. And we are boring as hell. And we play ultra-defensive. But at least we have the decency of not qualifying for the EC and boring the whole of Europe to death.
I think that if Portugal scores early, the Greeks will have to come forward and get more men in Portugal's half and then we will have a game as they have nothing to lose and have showed that they can attack well when prompted to. But if Greece starts winning, it will be 11 greeks behind the ball and Portugal will be on Greece's half passing the ball around until an opening appears. Not so beautiful.
Throw yourself a bone. If Belgium made it to the finals like Greece did you would be in the same boat Greek fans are in.
Hardly rare, they've won five times. I'm sure there's an attempt to shoehorn them into fitting your statement, I just can't bothered to look for it. So far in the tournament Greece has beaten or drawn: Portugal Spain France Czech Republic But they lost to: Russia. My theory is that the double letter in Greece's name gives them a huge advantage over teams without that double letter. But when they played a team with a double letter Russia, they lost. I think I'm right here, though it may just be that I shouldn't draw wide sweeping conclusions from a small sample of games, particularly when other games contradict those conclusions.
I didn't mean Brazil winning was rare, I meant they are unusual compared to the majority of teams that have had cup success in recent memory. Most attacking nations are stifled by good defensive teams, but Brazil just has too much speed and talent for most opponents. Still, when they lost to France, they couldn't break down their defense. "I think I'm right here, though it may just be that I shouldn't draw wide sweeping conclusions from a small sample of games, particularly when other games contradict those conclusions." It's hardly a sweeping conclusion that defense more than offense wins championships in sports. It's a popular belief, one that seems to get lost in the goal-hungry Euro fans.
Isn't it funny a thread like this started by someone who uses the screename 'FireTrapatoni'? Italy fans never learn. Replacing the coach won't help them getting out of this downhill Italy is heading if they don't change the anti-football mentality.
It's a popular belief in baseball too, contrary to the vast amount of evidence that exists in that sport to the country. The number of people who believe something has no bearing on its accuracy.
Downhill? Player selection is what costs Italy games not tactics. We have loads of talented players. It is coaches who make the decision of who plays or doesn't. Defense wins games as you should know when Paolo Rossi hit you with a trifecta. Ole!
Everyone assumes I wanted Trap fired because Italy emphasizes defense. I wanted him fired because he was a lousy coach. Italy's approach works. Why would you want them to play like other teams? It's always more interesting to see a clash of styles. Baseball is somewhat different because you don't have two full sets of offensive and defensive players on the field at the same time in a symetrical layout. But even in baseball, pitching and good fielding teams like the Marlins usually win over hard hitting teams. Basketball proves defense wins championships as evidence by the championships of the Spurs and Pistons. American Football is no different with the championships of the Patriots and TB Bucs, where both were better defensive teams than offensive.
FireTrapatoni, must your ‘Italy out of the Euro’ catharsis be so public?...and how many more of these threads will get you there? At the beginning of the tournament it was “Italy has the most balanced talent”: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118278 When thing began to look dire we got “Where is the Defense”: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118972&page=1&pp=15 We’ve all seen Germany in its heyday between ‘70-’90, and they did not play like Italy. Having a sound defensive unit does not make you a counter-attacking team, nor an emulator of the Italian style. Ceres posted that having a good defense (or defensive scheme) does not mean you play defensively. You claim that Greece is hardly solid at the back here, but later on we will see that you use them as the shining example of defensive tactics. Machoward pointed out the difference between league play and tournament play. You and I discussed the fact that the first stage of the Euro’s had exactly the same goals allowed per game as the most recent Serie A season, thus blunting the argument that defense was not being played. Now at the end of the tournament, in addition to the thread we are currently on, you also have “Finals Team Boost for Italy”: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120934 Now the same team that were ‘hardly solid at the back’ have gotten to the final ‘playing the way Italy usually play’. Intersting. Spartak reply fits with my thinking on this; Greece plays the style that will allow them to compete given less stellar individual talents. IMO successful teams are those that play to their strengths and minimize the exposure to their weaknesses. Greece is a great example…without true superstars to dominate offensively, they rely on playing very compact, keeping their shape and fighting for every ball all over the field. They go forward when they have the opportunity, in a very methodical manner (for a good part of the game against the Czech they took it to them). Everyone knows that Italy is a formidable national squad – with history and pedigree -- and produces some of the world’s greatest talent; however, the results relative to this talent (unless we are over-estimating it) over the last twenty odd years have not shown what you claim to be superior tactics. Italy’s chosen approach to the game is not as clear-cut blueprint for success in tournament style football.
>Everyone knows that Italy is a formidable national squad – with history and pedigree -- and produces some of the world’s greatest talent; however, the results relative to this talent (unless we are over-estimating it) over the last twenty odd years have not shown what you claim to be superior tactics. Italy’s chosen approach to the game is not as clear-cut blueprint for success in tournament style football. Some of the best football played in this tournament was played by Italy in the first 70 minutes of the match with Sweden. Had they played like that for the whole game and in their other games instead of reverting to type then I believe we'd be watching Italy in the final later today.