Defeating Mexico in Mexico in a WCQ

Fonsecas shot was good but that wasnt the goal, the goal was from Medford who was offsides...

 

Will you also be joining in the mow my lawn chants

 

So your hypothesis is that Costa Rica did not deserve to win? Can you expand into it?. By the way, my dear amigo Various style, I'm still waiting for you know what

 

Hey man, I'm keeping the focus here on soccer and your whining about the alleged offside call.

 

Tell the Grupo 440 lads that im working on it.. and to answer the question.. im not sure about deserving to win, the team that scores the most goals wins its that simple. Im just pointing out the obvious, that goal was offsides..

 

La cagaste

 

Tha Rebels of the grains stand masterless.. .

 

Various. You did not answer the question. Maybe i need to ask the question clearly. Let me try.

I saw that game at Azteca a couple of years ago. Now, my question is what team deserve to win after 90 minutes?. Did Mexico play better, or Costa Rica did?. It's fair to say that CR played better?. Or Mexico?. I know that the team that score more goals should win, but that is not my question. For intances, USA vs German in France. I think that USA played much better and deserved to win. I German guy stopped a ball that was headed to the neat with his hand and the referre did not see it. That was decisive for German's victory, but USA clearly played better and deserve the win from my point of view. Is my question clear now?

 

Mexico played better in the first half then Costa Rica had the better second half..

 

and your conclusion is ?? Mexico play much, muchhhhhhhhhh better in the first half and Costa Rica just play better, but not as much as Mexico in the first half?. I just dont understand. Just tell me who deserved the win?.

 

The game should of ended in a draw

 

I think we should worry about beating Mexico at home first. I'm starting to think that many Yanks feel that they are entitled to beat Mexico. Far from it! Mexico is talented and surely want the run to stop.

Prediction: Hard fought games were anybody can win or lose.

 

Perhaps I didn't say that well. I didn't mean to imply that the US or Mexico would play defensively at home but our opponents surely will play defensively on the road against us.

Given the format (up to 4 of six teams go the WC), stealing a point away against one of the top two teams will be a huge push for T and T, Panama etc. I expect Mex and USA to see much defensive, hope-for-a-tie soccer this Hex.

 

It's not that we feel we're entitled to it, it's like the earlier post said: it's the last hurdle for us to overcome to be the top team in concacaf. It's something we've never done before because quite frankly we've never deserved to. But this team is brimming with talent and confidence and next year will be our best shot to finally beat mexico in Mexico.

We're not entitled to anything.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying...I think, but

We are already the top team in CONCACAF.

 

I didn't mean to make it sound like we're still second-class compared to Mexico. I think the World Cup win put us over the top and our continued dominance over them at most levels simply emphasizes that point. I do believe the US is the best in CONCACAF and that our future is a lot brighter than Mexico's. We haven't hit our ceiling and they pretty much are doing things they way they've always done things.

What I mean in terms of clearing the final hurdle is that we need win in Mexico at some point. We've already beat them in Korea, we beat them here in the States on a regular basis but we haven't ever won down there (have we ever scored even?).

 

I just can't understand how we can even fathom winning in Azteca, when we couldn't even beat Panama or Jamaica away recently. And all the excuses I hear about the grass, the rain, the hostile crowd...they remind me a wee bit of Mexico back when losing to the US was unheard of.

And to show no respect to a quality team like Mexico and not even consider their run of play as of late when discussing this topic...have we become the Eurosnob?

Past glory means nothing now. I would love nothing else than to win in Azteca, but do you feel Gibbs is ready for Azteca? EJ, DMB, LD, BC, Ching, or the young guys from Europe for that matter? There is a reason why Mexico doesn't lose often in Azteca, and if you think we can waltz right in and take 3 points, you are underestimating our opponent and that can be dangerous.

Baby steps, let's try to win in Guatemala and Panama before we start to think about Azteca.

 

Hey, I'd like to have KZ there, too. Put him, Mastro, Landon, and DMB in the midfield and we're set - no complaints from me.

And yes, I did ignore the U23 match in Guadalajara because as it so happens I was there, saw for myself the piss-poor job Myernick did with the team, and decided what happened with the U23's had no significance or relevance whatsoever to the senior team.

 

Yes, we've scored.

I found games that we lost to Mexico in Mexico in 1984,1980, and 1974 in which we scored a goal, a single goal, in each game. Pretty depressing stuff.

But after the CONCACAF Gold Cup final in 1993 (Mexico 4-0), I don't see them putting the hurt on us at all:

1997-11-02 Mexico 0 US 0 WC Qualifier in Mexico
1999-08-01 Mexico 1 US 0 Confederations Cup in Mexico
2001-07-01 Mexico 1 US 0 WC Qualifier in Mexico

[edit: but then scorelines don't tell the whole story. Maybe Mexico dominated one or more of these games and their superiority wasn't represented in the final score. It happens, witness April 28,
2004 United States 1 Mexico 0. ]

As you point out the future is bright and we aren't about to hit the ceiling just yet.

 

I don't necessarily think Brazil has a hegemony in the CONMEBOL. Brazil is not that far and away better than Argentina (personally I think talent-wise Argentina is deeper and better than Brazil right now). The only region I can think of that has a true hegemony is Oceania. In fact I agree with the post that said that the US will never have a hegemony in CONCACAF just because I think it's unrealistic to think Mexico will fall by the wayside and just suddenly stop producing talent. Will the US ever beat Mexico in Mexico? Probably, it's not impossible. But I think the US/Mexico rivalry will be like the Brazil/Argentina one. Some years Mexico will be a few steps behind the US and some years the US will be few steps behind Mexico.

 

Well said.

 

Kronos!!!!!! What's up?

I always like the US v. Mexico posts. And when VS joins in, you know we hit some nerve. (btw, Chuck Fivas USA, Styles)

Kronos makes a good point. While the US holds the bragging rights as far as First Team superiority goes, Mexico is still a very dangerous and formidable foe. Winning in Azteca is a lofty goal. If Bruce deems it necessary to play for the tie, then so be it. If he deems it necessary to go for the win, I only hope he doesn't start Chris Armas. (Why, Bruce, why?!)

Whatever Bruce's strategy is, Mexico is going to play for the win in Azteca. That's why, for me, a tie is an excellent result. A win would be spectacular. But a tie against Mexico at home is also a good result. A win is something to savor, but a tie should be acceptable, unless we needed a win of course.

I hate Mexico and I respect them and have a strong appreciation for their game, maybe not their gamesmanship. I enjoy watching the US gain some of the elan that Mexico brings to the pitch. A win in Azteca (it has to be Azteca) would be a game to remember, even an epochal event.

What should our lineup be? It has to be one with balls. I agree that it would have to be a scrappy game. I can see this:

Keller
Jones Bocanegra Pope Convey
Mastroeni
Klein Donovan Beasley
Casey
Johnson

This is just to get the line up discussion started. I wonder why Bruce asked Cobi to come in at right back. Obviously, Bruce still respects Cobi's game but feels he's got options at wing. Cobi still has speed and I think Bruce would appreciate what Cobi would bring to the Mexico match.

Convey is in because of his ball control and speed against an accelerating forward. But I could see moving Boca there and bringing Mastroeni as a stopper, especially if O'Brien makes the trip. I can also see Reyna at D-mid. I agree that he is not the best choice for attacking mid.

Discuss. I hope this game is during summer time so a teacher like me has a chance to go.

 

Before I get into it, what's up with the simple miscue of ignoring Mexico's young depth?

I don't know if it's just me but it seems that only the U.S. is producing players.

Are we still fielding Marcelino Bernal and Alberto Coyote?

Hmm.

I'm missing out on something.

That cleverly-alluded to u23 squad that beat Lando Calrissian and co. was full of people we couldn't care less about.

At least personally, I don't.

Anyway.. The main reason why Costa Rica beat us, aside from the fact that they played to win whereas we played to.. Come to think of it, I don't think the guys really played much of anything that day.

Drumroll.

In answer to your question..

What my mentally-challenged compatriot failed to mention is that the aforementioned loss at Azteca was largely due to the dark period that our team was experiencing.

The Dark Lord Enrique Meza.

Jose Manuel Abundis as our striker?

Oh God.

Maybe as an outsider it is hard to grasp, but let's just say the MNT had its own personal Empire. Luckily, the Rebel Alliance stepped in for the final five matches and sent us to Japorea full of glee.

Unfortunately for us (the crybaby lawnmowers) the shroud of the darkside has once again enveloped our national team.

Anyone familiar with the present situation would make out the supporting cast.

Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine: Alberto De la Torre
Anakin Skywalker/Darth Lord Vader: Ricardo Antonio Lavolpe

Hopefully, the Return of the Jedi looms near.

The sight of its birth: Tatooine.

Ciudad Universitaria.

 

I don't know what the foot speed of Mexico defenders, but I rather start Wolfe/GAM with Donovan/Beasley as dual attacking midfielders with Reyna/Mastro as dual center midfielders with Gibbs/Boca/Pope/Albright on the backline.

We also can use McBride/Wolfe to start and GAM up for last 30 minutes. The reason I want Wolfe starts, because Wolfe is one attacker making Mexican defenders sweating. GAM should have a field day if we can explore the slowness of Mexican defense line.