December / January Camp Planning and Roster Construction

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Jul 9, 2023.

  1. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i mostly agree that a camp for mls/available players who could possibly help the first team- tolkin, cowell, vazquez etc is a worthy undertaking, but the problem is we simply dont have enough players to hold a camp without the roldans and yueills and longs.

    and because of...ill say "reasons"- the recent focus has been on those guys, making the whole thing pretty useless.

    so its tough. i absolutely want genuinely promising domestic players to have some avenue to the first team without it being beyond a shadow of a doubt, slam dunk, expected to move to everton in the summer- but we just dont have the openings to justify it. i want a place for aiden morris to get a shot of some sort (and im obviously ignoring the olympics and speaking generally here), but even beyond our first team guys (adams, musah, wes, luca) weve got johnny and maloney and tesserman...

    im not interested in an argument of mls vs serie b or brazil- my point here is we dont have a handful of guys abroad, weve got a ton. the reason jan camp worked is that cm 4-8 on our depth chart were here, st 3-6. thats not the case anymore.

    a designated, fully "b-team" roster somewhere on a fifa date is the most practical approach i can think of. i want jesus and sarge, guttierez and booth, tolkin and lund etc in the same camp- and i wish it could be more than 5 or 6 days. guys just arent in the same place anymore, and the numbers just arent there in mls.

    ferreira and vazquez could battle it out, tolkin and jones- but zendejas vs arriola doesnt show us anything that matters. aiden beating out acosta or sands doesnt move the needle. a 2 deep jan camp with as little filler as possible would still be a "quaterfinal" at best because we dont have any mechanism to test zendejas against paredes, or morris against cardoso. just...deciding on guys (lund, maloney, etc) is just so hit or miss.

    we need that examination, evaluation and competition for the guys outside the 23 but jan camp, being limited to mls/mex/the odd sa or scandanavian players is just an outdated concept imo.
     
  2. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it possible to schedule a 3rd match? Or B team game in a FIFA window? If so, why aren’t we doing this?

    For example,

    A team: GK = Turner, Slonina, Horvath, FB = Dest, Scally, Jedi, Lund, CB = Miles, Richards, CCV, Ream, MF = Adams, Musah, McKennie, De la Torre, AT = Pulisic, Reyna, Weah, B. Aaronson, P. Aaronson, Paredes, FW = Pepi, Balogun

    B team: GK = Callender, Celentano, Brady, FB = Fossey, Jones, Wiley, Tolkin, CB = Zimmerman, Trusty, McKenzie, Brooks, MF = Johnny, Maloney, Puktsas, McGlynn, AT = Booth, Ferreira, Cremaschi, Cowell, Gutierrez, Malik, FW = Sargent, Vazquez

    Of course, we’ve got the Olympic team now, and we’ve got injured players mentioned, but you could see the value in this B team camp.
     
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm kind of surprised that after an "embarrassing" performance against T&T where it looked like we lacked intensity at times, and focus and perhaps even effort, you don't see the value of hardworking vets.

    We had basically Tim Ream and no one else to scream out there. No real super high workrate players to set a tone aside from Brendo and Pepi.

    I think if we're looking to maintain that culture, we perhaps need to ensure that we have guys who emulate that more often in camp in leadership roles. Especially for a camp lacking Christian and Tyler.
     
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  4. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A friendly for January against Slovenia was just announced so January camp seems pretty definite but seems less likely that there will be a December camp given no friendly has been announced.
     
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  5. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Capacity 8,000 :laugh:
     
  6. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly better they go somewhere new where they don’t usually play and sell out a smaller stadium versus playing in LA and having no one show up.
     
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  7. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If there’s no December camp, which I can maybe appreciate letting players get some extra time off after a really long year last year due to the World Cup (although I still would use the opportunity as an u23 camp), here’s my roster…

    First, figuring they’re out the door: Miles Robinson, Brandon Vazquez, Jesus Ferreira, John Tolkin, Cade Cowell, and maybe, DeJuan Jones.

    Not counting possible yanks-abroad. Mexico has often released players, Scandinavian teams too, and sometimes, players out of favor with their clubs.

    Personally, I would do this camp as a mix senior/u23 team. It would be a wasted opportunity to not do this.

    GOALKEEPERS
    1. Drake Callender
    2. Roman Celentano
    3. Chris Brady (u23)
    4. Patrick Schulte (u23)

    RIGHT BACKS

    1. DeJuan Jones [Brooks Lennon]
    2. DeAndre Yedlin
    3. Nathan Harriel (u23)
    4. Jake Davis (u23)

    CENTER BACKS
    1. Walker Zimmerman
    2. Matt Miazga
    3. James Sands
    4. Jackson Ragen
    5. George Campbell (u23)
    6. Josh Atencio (u23)
    7. Jalen Neal (u23)
    8. Brandon Craig (u23)

    LEFT BACKS
    1. Caleb Wiley ^
    2. Reed Baker-Whiting ^
    3. Noah Allen (u23)
    4. Nolan Norris (u23)

    MIDFIELDERS
    1. Kelyn Acosta
    2. Aidan Morris ^
    3. Jack McGlynn ^
    4. Cole Bassett ^
    5. Obed Vargas (u23)
    6. Daniel Edelman (u23)
    7. Owen Wolff (u23)
    8. Indiana Vassilev (u23) (Noel Buck)

    ATTACKERS
    1. Jordan Morris
    2. Paul Arriola
    3. Benjamin Cremaschi
    4. Diego Luna
    5. Brian Gutierrez
    6. Esmir Bajraktarevic
    7. Bernard Kamungo (u23)
    8. Quinn Sullivan (u23)
    9. Ted Ku-DiPietro (u23)
    10. Tyler Wolff (u23)
    11. Ben Bender (u23)
    12. Niko Tsakiris (u23)

    FORWARDS
    1. Brian White
    2. Duncan McGuire ^
    3. Matthew Hoppe (u23)
    4. Tega Ikoba (u23)
     
  8. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Were too broke to hire a better coach, but we can afford a three week camp each year for players who will never step on the field in a meaningful game.
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #34 Clint Eastwood, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    Except they always do.

    The domestic players become the Euro players.
    We should all be able to run down a very long list of key USMNTers that made their debut with the squad after January camp.

    .......................and the Olympics are meaningful games. If we use this event as preparation for the Olympics, then that's necessary. Cuz we have very few FIFA windows between now and the Olympics. And clubs don't have to release players to U23s teams in FIFA windows anyway. That squad, by definition is going to rely on a lot of domestic players.

    People talk all the time about how the USMNT is thin, and yet whine about January camp.

    What do you guys want?

    It's like you can't see the forest thru your own bitching.

    On one thread ya complain about Diego Luna not getting a callup, and then in another say we shouldn't have a January camp.

    Diego Luna is exactly the type of player for whom January camp exists.

    Or last January it was a guy like Jalen Neal. Work with a young guy like Jalen Neal for weeks in January so that you trust him for the Gold Cup in the summer.

    On another thread its "We need to evaluate more keepers, including the domestic ones!!!" Well, when are you going to do that? We have very few FIFA windows between now and Copa America.

    Surely I'm not the only one who understands the important role that January camp has played in the rise of the USMNT program. Surely not.
     
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  10. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #35 Eleven Bravo, Nov 28, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    8 Reasons for this January Camp

    #1 Who is our back up keeper? Drake Callender, Roman Celentano, Chris Brady, Patrick Schulte?

    Just for the goalkeeper position alone, this January Camp is worth it. While Turner is still entrenched at number 1 (and even that might should begin to be up for debate after his howler performance against T&T and getting benched at Forest), the number 2 job is wide open. Slonina is still super young. Horvath and Steffen are hardly even professionals anymore. It would be foolish to count on them. We need to see if any of these 4 are ready for the next step.

    Simply put, if we come out of this January Camp, with a little more confidence in a number 2, the whole camp was a success for me.

    #2 Can an u23 please play center back? Jalen Neal? Anyone else?

    Look, you can accuse me of sounding alarmist, I don’t care. But our u23 center backs is the worst generation of center backs that I can recall ever…. I’m talking about pre-1990s level BAD. There is NO ONE on the horizon. Trust me. I monitor the player pool like a hawk. And there is NO ONE. They are all terrible.

    How terrible? Jonathan Tomkinson is considered a starter for our Olympic team. You know, the guy who can’t even get on the field for his English League Two club.

    That said, I would give almost anything for some magical person to take that next leap and be an option for the Olympic team and for our future.

    #3 We need to also build out our u23 right back depth.

    You remember last generation when we used to boast about how much right back depth we have? Yeah, well, we’re paying for that. There’s Dest. There’s Scally. I think Fossey needs to get a shot. And then, there’s a whole bunch of nobodies. Yedlin’s old now. Moore ain’t it. Lennon ain’t it. Who do you have?

    And then when we go into the u23’s, it’s not a good look. Reynolds is a decent, not good nor great, option. Then who? Harriel? He’s so up and down with his club. Maybe Jake Davis deserves a shot. He’s at least playing regularly. Cameron Harper is probably another Brooks Lennon - good enough in MLS but not good for NT. Cuevas fell off. Halliday fell off. There’s not a whole lot here either.

    Simply put, it would be a good thing to see if someone can step up.

    #4 Maybe secure some of these prospects who are potential dual nationals: Diego Luna, Noel Buck, Esmir Bajraktarevic, Jack McGlynn, Brian Gutierrez, Ben Cremaschi, etc.

    Just for showing some love to some of these dual nationals, would make this camp worth it.

    We already mentioned Luna. But what about Buck? He’s one of our best young midfielders and we casually let England seduce him. Come on now. We can’t lose these players. We’ve got some depth. But not that much depth.

    Meanwhile, these players might not be fully ready for a competitive senior team level match if we have everyone healthy. This is an amazing opportunity to lock these players in.

    #5 Explore our over age Olympic options on defense: James Sands, Matt Miazga, Walker Zimmerman.

    Let’s reward James Sands, maybe Matt Miazga, for their good seasons, and continue to allow Zimmerman to play a leadership role, and introduce him to a lot of the Olympic players, especially if he could lead that team.

    Listen, we need depth at center back for this Olympic team. And we could allow these three to step in to see if they would be decent options for one of those over age slots.

    #6 Give a shot for these young midfielders and wingers and forwards: Duncan McGuire, Jack McGlynn, Aidan Morris, Cade Cowell, Diego Luna, Brian Gutierrez, Ben Cremaschi, etc.

    These players have players in front of them for the national team, but with injuries, form, and hopefully these players future development, we need to give these young guys an opportunity.

    Personally, I feel like if we roll out another bad Gold Cup experiment in the name of, oh, we can’t have a camp of just young bucks. That is just absolutely pigheaded and foolish. Yeah, a camp where Roldan, Acosta, J. Morris, and Arriola starting, that’s a waste of time for everyone. That accomplishes nothing but boosting those players ego. Move on. This camp is a perfect opportunity to put these young players in uncomfortable situations to see who rises to the top and who folds under pressure.

    If we want to get better, we’ve got to take some risks. Everything cannot be done the safe way just because we’re not bold enough to try something new. In other words, I have zero problem throwing out mostly an u23 midfield and offense in order to see who might be ready for a shot with the A team. There’s no way to know if a player is ready or not until we actually give a player a shot. And now is such a great opportunity for them to see if they have what it takes.

    #7 Develop left back depth: Give Caleb Wiley his shot

    While DeJuan Jones and John Tolkin might be out the door, and not available, Caleb Wiley should still be available, and we would benefit by giving him his shot.

    Caleb Wiley? He started 2023 out on fire and then came down to earth towards the end of the season. But let’s not forget, he’s still a teenager who still has a very high ceiling. Why not give him a legitimate chance? It won’t kill us to see where he stands. It will only help. And, in case you’re not aware, we need to figure out, who is our left back behind Jedi? I’m not 100% sold on Lund yet, and even still, we need more than just one backup option. Give the man his shot.

    #8 Finally, forward depth.

    In my humble opinion, we stand to learn the least from this January Camp about forward. Especially if Vazquez and Ferreira are out the door.

    That said, it’s not going to hurt us to determine if Duncan McGuire, or Brian White, could become legitimate depth options at forward. Competition makes everyone better. And next man up. This is a good chance to see if McGuire is ready or not for prime time. Take some risks.
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
     
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  12. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If no separate u23 camp…. And no Tolkin, Miles, Jones, Ferreira, Vazquez, or Cowell due to pending/possible moves to Europe.

    27 man roster

    GK Callender, Celentano, Brady, +Schulte
    FB Wiley, Harriel, Davis, Baker-Whiting
    CB Zimmerman, Miazga, Neal, Campbell, +Atencio
    MF Sands, McGlynn, A. Morris, Buck (O. Wolff)
    AT Luna, Cremaschi, Gutierrez, Bassett, Esmir, Kamungo, +TDKP
    FW McGuire, White, +Hoppe

    ——————-McGuire——————
    Guti—————Benji—————Luna
    ————Sands———McGlynn———
    Wiley————————————Harriel
    ————Miazga——(CPT)Walker——-
    ———————Callender——————

    Subs: Brady (Callender), Neal (Miazga), RBW (Harriel), Morris (Sands), Buck / Bassett (McGlynn), White (McGuire)
     
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  13. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    I would agree that this year would be more worthwhile than others. And a U23 camp might be the way to go. The Olympics will be a high profile event, and those players are next up for se senior team depth.I just don't want to waste money on a Brooks Lennon vs Nathan Harriel right back battle.

    I've been very pro-Drake C., too. But if he hasn't been able to get into a single game with our current goalkeeper situation, then I'm not sure why we need a camp to do it in.

    That said, if the federation can afford to host an event that ferments more MLS delusions of grandeur than quality USMNT minutes, them we are not poor, and we should have a better coach.
     
  14. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We should have a better coach. No doubt. But I don’t think the USMNT is hurting for money. Honestly, I don’t know, yet, I would not be surprised if we weren’t actually one of the richest programs in the world.
     
  15. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A prediction for the roster (some guys on this list will go to Europe and won’t be there but for now I’ll include them). Also including some vets as potential overage guys.

    GK: Callender, Celentano, Brady, Schulte
    LB: Tolkin, Wiley
    CB: Zimmerman, Miazga, Neal, Campbell, Robinson
    RB: Jones, Yedlin
    DM: Sands, Morris, Vargas
    CM: McGlynn, Buck Cremaschi, Gutierrez, Tillman
    WF: Cowell, Luna, Kamungo, Arriola, Morris
    FW: Vazquez, Ferreira, McGuire
     
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  16. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We should get this roster soon. During Berhalter’s tenure he’s announced it January 6, December 30, January 5, and January 6.
     
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  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Announcement Friday

     
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  18. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’ll be interesting to see who is on the roster….

    Could Mihailovic be on the list if he’s back in MLS?

    Are Vazquez, Ferreira, Tolkin, Cowell, Jones, and/or anyone else on their way out?

    Also, I already want to see all of Celentano, Callender, Brady, and Schulte in goal, but could Horvath and/or Steffen be a sneaky inclusion?

    What other players might be a sneaky inclusion?

    This might come down to the wire or back room discussions.
     
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