Dealing with troublesome teammates

Discussion in 'Referee' started by wjarrettc, Apr 28, 2003.

  1. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This weekend I had some real problems with some of my ARs, both adult and teenage. The problems fell into two categories:

    1) Unprofessional behavior...I see this mainly with the teenagers just out to make a quick buck. I had one AR show up in a red jersey (His explanation...I didn't know we HAD to wear gold), one that thought he was Zorro with his flag, and another that felt he couldn't be bothered to tuck in his shirttail or wear his referee shorts. The last one was also so sloppy with his mechanics that I missed a ball out of play because he signalled so poorly and quickly that I thought he had started to signal and then stopped because the ball didn't actually go out.

    2) Mr. Know-it-all. I'm a first season referee so I tend to yield to senior officials in most cases. But on a few ocassions I'd worked with senior refs who frustrate me to no end. I had one adult AR this weekend that really drove me nuts. Once, when I looked to him to see if he had any subs for me, I noticed he had his back to the field watching the game on the adjacent field. He was rarely in position with the 2LD and never followed the ball to the end line. He made several offside calls which were close so I had to trust him but I can't blame the coach on the sideline for going ballistic over them. Then late in the game, I missed him flagging a ball out-and-in on a corner kick and he starts lecturing me from the sideline during the game about watching his flag!

    Any tips/suggestions/common experiences that you guys can share would be great!
     
  2. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've found that the kids like you describe aren't going to listen. I haven't had to work with any that were bad lately, but if it's really a problem, tell them to go home and do the game solo. I did that once at a tournament and it made things a lot easier. The thing is, when you have AR's, you need to rely on them because you ref a little differently when they are there. If you have to do both jobs and adjust to incompentence, the kid being there only hurts the game. You're going to catch hell in the middle when the kid screws up, so you might as well be alone. Let the assignor know what happened, and then let him/her deal with it.

    Appearance can also add to or undermine credibility.

    As far as older referees go, don't sweat it. Turn the bs dectector on and at least look like you're paying attention when you're being fed what you know is crap. Sometimes you get good info, other times you don't. You never really know who the person you're talking to is, so be respectful. As you get better and do better games, this becomes less of a problem.

    The sooner you get to a point where you don't dwell on stuff like that and focus on just getting better, the less that stuff will bother you.
     
  3. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PREGAME!

    It sounds like you're getting club linesmen instead of certified ARs. During pregame, I try to determine how qualified my ARs are (drafted parents or certified refs with 10 years experience). During one U16 pregame, I suggested to the CR, that since both his ARs had 15+ years experience that we could handle more than ball out of play.
    With parental ARs, not in uniform, I expect out of play calls only.
    In pregame, you can also suggest things like "let's look professional, please tuck your shirt in." On the ball out and in play on the corner, the AR needs to hold the signal until you see it. If he had done so, you should have been in a position to see it. (Did he hold it?) It's also unprofessional to lecture your CR (or AR) while the game is in progress. Do it in private at half or postgame.

    I've changed my shirt to match ARs, when they already have a different color on. It also depends on the teams' colors. Once, at a tournament recently, two of us changed to fuchsia to match the AR who only had one shirt (one of the teams had yellow, so I had to change anyway.)
     
  4. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks Tom. The unfortunate thing is that everyone of the examples I used were certified grade 08 referees!

    I'll admit that I should do a better job with the pregame but my biggest problem is getting the teenagers to take their job seriously.

    The "Zorro" example was from a U19 game and zorro was a very short, 15 year old AR. During the pregame, I made a real point of letting him know that being professional, standing at attention and signaling sharply and crisply was required to get these older and bigger boys to respect him. Yet, I still got his zorro performance. I even ran by a couple of times during the game and asked to him to cut it out, which he did for about 10 minutes and then he'd lapse back into it.

    The dilemma is that the assocation I was working with has a severe shortage of certified referees and tend to take the viewpoint that having him there on the line is better than not having him there at all :(
     
  5. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's worth repeating and rewording-

    If required, you can reposition your ARs when you want them in a better location.
     
  6. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have worked with a LOT of first year referees in the 14, 15 & 16 year old age groups. They are frequently more worried about looking cool (with baggy soccer shorts and untucked shirts) than they are about looking professional.

    Generally, I cover all of the above mentioned items in my pregame, but the first thing I do is make sure that they LOOK the part. Generally, I take a more instructional attitude rather than a parent getting on them about something. Particularly about the dress issue.

    It usually goes something along the lines of "Are you getting paid to work these games? (nods all around) Then that means you are professional referees -- whether you feel that way or not. If you were amateur, you wouldn't be getting paid. Which would you rather be? (all say professional) Then I talk about appearances -- most importantly being dressed properly but almost as important LOOKING like you know what you are doing. I frequently will mentor these guys on U10 or U11 games. I start with the premise that at this age group, if you simply look like you know what you're doing, you're probably going to get the benefit of the doubt on the questionable calls.

    Generally, the opening bit about being professional gets the kid's attention.

    As for your second part about the senior AR's that weren't really helping you much -- grin and bear it -- as billf mentioned -- filter what they say through your BS detector. And if you're not sure about what's BS and what's not, got to someone you know who's a senior official and ask about it.
     
  7. jc508

    jc508 New Member

    Jan 3, 2000
    Columbus, Ohio area
    When an AR screws up from a lack of knowing what to do, I will hold up the next restart and go and have a brief chat with the AR if it is that bad. Otherwise, I will try to wait until halftime to address the deficiency as an assessor would do, not as some overbearing know-it-all.

    When we restart play after our chat, I look to see if the signal we discussed has been improved. If it was not, I motion to remind the AR to correct the signal. If the signal was corrected, I give the AR a smile and a thumbs up to reinforce the corrected behavior. I will often do it again the second correct signal that is given. When the match is over, I will comment how much better the AR did in hopes that the AR will carry the corrected habit forward to the next match and do a better job for the next referee.

    When a youth shows up for a match with no socks or some other uniform deficiency, I try to suggest that they take their game fee and purchase the proper uniform parts. I try to do it with a smile, half jokingly, half serious. And if the youth did a good job, I will be sure to compliment the AR for the fine job he/she did.

    But then there are those who will not listen and will adamantly continue in their errant ways. I have not had to dismiss an AR yet, but I have come close a couple of times. Sometimes, you have no alternative but to dismiss an AR. Hope you never have to do it, and hope you have fun on the pitch.
     
  8. Greyhnd00

    Greyhnd00 New Member

    Jan 17, 2000
    Rediculously far nor
    You dont have a choice. Club linesman ca only signal balls in and out of play and when the ball has crossed the goal line. They are not allowed to call offside or fouls and the CR has the final authoriity on direction or goals.
     
  9. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Club Med
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People suck and referees are no exception. There's a few bad ones in every barrel. Develop a thick skin and keep striving to do your best. Just try to stay professional and even-tempered, and try to smile in the face of arrogance and incompetence. You'll be fine.

    Welcome to NC. :D
     
  10. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I lived in Cary, NC for three years (1973-1976). I never saw or heard of an organized game while I was there. About a dozen or so got together for a kick-around at NCState for a weekend afternoon, but they were the only field I knew about.

    I'm glad to see soccer has grown in my absense. I understand they in have a couple of college teams in the area. :)

    I don't think NC is alone in some of the growth pains.
     
  11. wjarrettc

    wjarrettc Member
    Staff Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Cliffs of Insanity
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You'll notice the change when you first fly in to Raleigh-Durham airport. There is plaque on the wall of the arrival lounge hailing the triangle area as "Home of Soccer National Champions" and touts the 20 national championships (NCAA and professional) shared by UNC, Duke, Carolina Courage, and the Raleigh Wings.

    If you're interested in what's happening in youth soccer in the area, check out www.caslnc.com

    Jarrett
     
  12. love to play

    love to play New Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    NC
    I understand your feelings

    Jarrett -

    I understand and feel your pain. All I can tell you is that it will get better in time. I take it you are still working mostly rec games here. I dealt with the same types that you are seeing a few years ago when I started as well. I worked with a kid who stopped the match 10 minutes early for a game once. He did it in both the forst half and the second half. He thought it was a big joke. I felt bad for the kids who were playing but at the time I did not feel as though there was a whole lot that I could do. If I were you I would remember the guys name, I always said that I would mail the match repoorts in so that I had the names. Then I would write a note to our assignor and let him know what happened. Then also tell him that you do not want to work with this person again. If it is appearance stuff and things like that you will see an email out to all of us within a day reminding us to be properly attired before the game. I have met and worked with a lot of good guys here in Raleigh over the past few years and for the most part there is a good group here. However, like with anything, there are a few rotten apples. Once you feel comfortable I would ask our assignor for a few of the younger classic matches here. They can be really competitive and you get to associate with a group of people who feel a lot more responsible about their jobs.

    Hope all is going well with you. I agree with a lot of comments that the guys on this board have made to you. I once told an AR to take off after a terrible 1st half. I explained it to both coaches, asked for a club linesman. I also called our assignor at half time and told him what had occurred. This was an extrmeme situation but he was supprtive. Anyway, good luck to you. Let me know if you are going to do the rec tournament here in Raleigh in the next few weeks. Maybe I will run into you at the Soc. Center or somewhere.
     

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